OdieLopez3

Hello everyone, when it comes to horn use does it really matter what horn model or mouthpiece model you own or is it just the person behind the horn that is the difference maker. I tried so many horns and so many mouthpieces and I know the differences but up to what extent is the necesity of a profesional model horn to an average horn in the world of music.

Manny Laureano

The quality and make of instrument matters in the following:

Sound quality

Ease of achieving proper intonation

Playing characteristics such as high or low resistance feel which affects ease of articulation and high register


All those qualities will make a trumpeters ability to express him/herself easier or harder. A player is either a good musician or s/he isn't. A good or bad horn won't fix bad vibrato. It will not make you smarter or able to transpose better.

A horn is a tool. The better the tool is, the easier it is for a craftsman to create something beautiful. A tool won't make a good craftsman out of an someone who has not an idea of what to craft nor a talent for craftmaking.

ML

B15M

This question has been asked over and over but I'm going to answer just because I want to get into the elusive Forte club.

A chain is only as good as it's weakest link.

A great player can play a garden hose and sound ok. (some where there is a clip on here)
A really bad player will still sound bad on a good trumpet.

A great player can get used to a bad trumpet and compensate so much that it becomes routine but might have an easier time on a better trumpet.

Basically, that's what I've read on here over and over again.

gzent

Odie, I like to think of it this way:

In general, the closer the equipment is to the lips the more impact it has on the end result; closer being in terms of distance measured along the air-column.

So the first inch into the mouthpiece is similar to the first inch behind the lip.

A foot down the leadpipe is similar to a foot back; around your voicebox, and so on.

What that means is that a top notch lip (more accurately embouchure) like Manny's can overcome a lot of short comings in the equipment.

Obviously, if one has put in the endless hours to attain such a great embouchure, they don't want the equipment on either side of the lip holding them back - which is why, I believe, Manny is so dedicated to physical fitness and top notch hardware.



My 2c,

Greg

__________________
Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation

John FOWLER

I'm new here ... could you be more precise concerning: "So the first inch into the mouthpiece is similar to the first inch behind the lip."

"A foot down the leadpipe is similar to a foot back; around your voicebox, and so on."

Thank you.

Richard Oliver

Exceedingly well stated.

A big-time keeper.

Regards,

Richard Oliver

rowuk

In any vibrating system, things happen on both sides of the "motor" (our lips in the case of a trumpet). If you put a mute in your trumpet, things change that go all the way back to your diaphragm.
Example:
The cup of your mouthpiece has many functions. It needs to have enough space to let your lips vibrate. It also is an acoustic chamber that shapes the frequencies going into the horn. The small size of the throat causes air to "back up" in the cup supporting the lips with "back pressure". This "support" from the cup has to be matched with air pressure behind the lips - ie. in your mouth, otherwise the lips can't vibrate.
What happens in the trumpet itself is even more complicated as we have leadpipes, valves, bells, bore sizes, braces, material thickness................. The effects of each of those single factors will have a corresponding body use requirement.
For example, a "free blowing" trumpet could use your air up before you are finished with a phrase. You would need to learn to play more softly, breath deeper, change to a less free blowing model or change mouthpiece if your goal was to play that phrase at a specific volume.
While it is interesting to learn all about these things (I have been at it for 40 years now and am not even close to making predictions based on numbers), make sure that the important part - what actually comes out of the bell is not comprimized by a technical obsession. We really do not need to know much about a trumpet to play on a professional level. We just need unbiased people that we can trust to help with hardware decisions. Every pro player that I know has one or more of these people available.
If we were all aware how imperfect even the best made instruments are, would that help us PLAYERS one bit? I think we would have even more psychological handicaps!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

gzent

Very well said.

John, hear's another bit of imagery to clarify - imagine your glued 1/4 inch metal sphere on the bell near the rim.
It would have liitle effect on the sound when compared to the effect of placing 1/4" metal sphere in your receiver.

The closer to the lips the greater the effect of a disruption in the vibrating air column.

Greg

__________________
Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation

ccNochops

....shop in Alabama, horns are on his mind. He's standing there and he hears a muffled cry for help, turns around, and underneath a shiney plastic wrapped Mirage trumpet is a beat up Yamaha trumpet case. This guy does the right thing, "hey buddy, let me see the trumpet....no, not that fancy looking thing. Yeah, that's right, the one underneath, the beat up case, yep....right there." So he opens the case and there lies the source of the cries for help. Bruised, battered, first valve stuck down, third barely moving, stepped on, missing parts, 2330 student horn headed for the metal scrap heap.
"You wanna look at that?" the mysterious guy's female companion asks incredulously. "Yeah baby......I do. How much pal? Never mind, $40 bucks.....okay $50, the mouth piece & case are worth that."
All the way back to VA, the little trumpet sobs, knowing its life has been spared, a hot bath, some TLC, fresh oil..........thing plays completely different that the 1966 Holton I've been playing my entire life. Bigger bore, blows MUCH easier, high notes roll out the bell, makes me breath more, much brassier sound.......point is, YES, horns do make a difference, just as mouthpieces, posture, attitude. That little Yamaha taught me that, these guys have been preaching it, for $50 bucks and a student horn that will eventually find a new life teaching yet another young trumpeter, I'll be looking for a pro model (used) that I can afford........chuck PS....can anybody put in a good word for me to the Oakley Wild Thing fairy?

__________________
"I don't take my music lightly, I want it crushed by the horn section."

John FOWLER

Gee - you guys are opening up a new world, imagery, and vocabulary. (Maybe I HAVE lived too sheltered a life!).

Thanks to ROWUKand GZENT for your wonderful clarification. Ya see - I have always had trouble with range (up!) and the closest I have come to rationalising what has been wrong came out of some books Jeff Purtle sent me authored by Claude Gordon - use your tongue to minimize the "echo chamber" behind the mouthpiece - plus a good control of air. Comments?

Going off at a tangent, for a moment - I used to find that playing lip-slirrs was like pumping iron (strengthening the facial muscles) but I NOW find that the more I lip-slirr the less the chops want to viabrate, so I don't do it any more. Actually, I've become so damned despondent, sometimes, that I want to give up the whole shebang - why kill and frustrate yourself!

But - life IS good, so I'll just battle on for a bit longer.

Chookaroo
(John Fowler)