Trumpet Discussion Discuss TU KU TU or TU TU KU? in the General forums; Hi, I learned to triple tongue using a "Tu-Ku-Tu Tu-Ku-Tu" method, really had no problems with it.....and after reading some ...
TU KU TU or TU TU KU?
Hi, I learned to triple tongue using a "Tu-Ku-Tu Tu-Ku-Tu" method, really had no problems with it.....and after reading some of the text in the Arbans, I noticed that it is recommended to triple tongue using a "Tu-Tu-Ku Tu-Tu-Ku" method. I'm starting to worry that maybe I'm going about triple tonguing all wrong.
What would you recommend? Re-learn with the Arbans method, or keep with what I'm doing now?
Personally I say if you sound good using what you're using now... why switch?
when you tongue tu-ku-tu tu-ku-tu, you do actually tongue tu-tu-ku if you're tonguing all the syllables at an even rate, right? In other words you have to be able to articulate two tus next to each other whether you think of it as tu-ku-tu or tu-tu-ku, but I'm definitely no expert at triple tonguing, rather an amateur actually, so I too am waiting for Manny's take on it
perhaps truth is a woman who has reasons for not letting us see her reasons-Nietzsche
Re: TU KU TU or TU TU KU?
"Hi, I learned to triple tongue using a "Tu-Ku-Tu Tu-Ku-Tu" method, really had no problems with it.....and after reading some of the text in the Arbans, I noticed that it is recommended to triple tongue using a "Tu-Tu-Ku Tu-Tu-Ku" method. I'm starting to worry that maybe I'm going about triple tonguing all wrong."
Here's what to consider:
When did you learn to triple-tongue? 5 months ago or five years ago?
Has anyone ever commented positively about it regarding
1) tone quality?
Do you find yourself getting tripped up or caught when others seem to breeze through a passage?
Has the speed increased over time or are you stuck at a relatively moderate tempo?
SO, what I'm saying is compared to the others that use the standard way of triple tonguing, do you find yourself lagging behind in your progress or do you compare favorably? If you do, well, then the answer is obvious. If you don't compare well, then, maybe you need to consider going with the standard way.
There have been players such as the famous cornet soloist, Jimmy Burke, who used that method. I use that style on a very limited basis for certain pieces like the opening to Mahler's Fifth and portions of Scheherazade.
Ask yourself these questions and I'm sure you'll come up with the right answer.
actually if memory serves, Jimmy Burke used TKT KTK not
TKT TKT (the only advantage I can see to it - never heard of anyone using this - is that it does always put the weaker K sound on the weakest beat of the triplet - but, of course, the K shouldn't be any weaker) - with Burke's method you just double tounge everything and change your accent pattern as needed - works for some - YMMV.
I really hadn't had a problem tounging the way I was, It really has worked just fine, as far as my progress I've been practicing for about 4 years, Starting to develop some nice speed, I wouldnt say I'm behind anyone at the same level. I just thought I should ask an authority before I continued. I wanted to make sure I wasnt doing somthing that I'd regret down the road. Thanks for the Advice I really appreciate it.
I learned TKT TKT, and had a few problems - basically due to having a terrible teacher at the time, who just told me how to do it, but never gave me advice as to how to make it better.
I then went to university and was told about TTK TTK and my teacher worked with me getting this clean and accurate. Then we moved on and got TKT TKT working well. By the end of that time I could use either, depending what the situation calls for. There are some pieces where TTK TTK makes more sense, others with TKT TKT.
My advice (and one which I use with my advanced students) is to learn EVERY possible combination of tongueing, that way it doesn't matter what you come up against, you are prepared for it.
Personally I use TTK TTK for just about everything, but I can go onto TKT TKT. The TKT KTK really annoys me, I can do it, but it never sounds quite right. Back to the practice room
Mezzo Forte User
Rod Franks apparently uses TKT, and doesn't exactly sound bad.
I also learned the TKT by "just doing it". It seemed easier at the time. Last week we had an instructor from the local conservatory come over and give a workshop for our high brass section of the c.b. and she advocated TTK. I have started learning it "just to have something available" should it ever be needed. Besides.... it can't hurt the TKT to know how to do it elsewise so why not?
(she also gave out lots of "advice" on what finish to have on your trumpet and what mouthpiece to buy but that is a different topic (and rant)).
Manny, and others, Thank you for your detailed replies. I really appreciate the recommendations. I ended up trying to switch to the Ta-Ta-Ka method, and It wasn't as difficult as I thought. Of course, it wasn’t as even, and I couldn’t keep up a decent speed, but I think with a bit of elbow grease, I should be able to get it up to speed with my other method. I think I'll take your advice and become proficient at both methods so I can be flexible when the music requires.
I just wanted to say again, that I want to thank Mr. Laureano, as well as the rest of the people that have responded. This website is an invaluable resource for any trumpet players, and I thank all of you for taking time to answer questions.
Student, University of Minnesota Morris
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