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Trumpet Discussion Discuss What impact does Bore really have ? in the General forums; See Rowuk, I'm telling you we need to come up with a different term since bore size is so convoluted. ...
  1. #51
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    Re: What impact does Bore really have ?

    See Rowuk,
    I'm telling you we need to come up with a different term since bore size is so convoluted.
    Maybe a on line survey!
    Ask people what adjectives they use to describe trumpets with a small bore verses trumpets with a large bore and what trumpets they attribute this to.
    From there, devise a term.
    Damned I wish I knew how to put together an on line survey.
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  2. #52
    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
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    Re: What impact does Bore really have ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markie View Post
    See Rowuk,
    I'm telling you we need to come up with a different term since bore size is so convoluted.
    Maybe a on line survey!
    Ask people what adjectives they use to describe trumpets with a small bore verses trumpets with a large bore and what trumpets they attribute this to.
    From there, devise a term.
    Damned I wish I knew how to put together an on line survey.
    ---------
    If any of you out there in cyberland are music majors and need a thesis idea or a doctoral student in search of a dissertation topic, here's a good one!
    Markie,
    for every trait that they come up with, we both know of small to large bore instruments that would fill the bill. It makes no sense to beat that dead horse again.

    If someone wants to be a trumpet geek, they need to talk about something like mass (of the mouthpiece, of the horn, of the player, of the tongue, of the valve oil, heck even the mass of the case is more significant than the bore). There is really NO real objective data available on that and it DOES make a difference.
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

  3. #53
    Piano User Bay Area Brass's Avatar
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    Re: What impact does Bore really have ?

    I guess the objective data would be playing both a large bore Committee and a medium bore Committee on the same gigs, and noticing the difference, since the mouthpiece and other equipment are the same.
    Bill Ortiz
    '56 Martin Committee Deluxe
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  4. #54
    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
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    Re: What impact does Bore really have ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Brass View Post
    I guess the objective data would be playing both a large bore Committee and a medium bore Committee on the same gigs, and noticing the difference, since the mouthpiece and other equipment are the same.
    Hi Bill,
    yes, your situation would tell you about the design ideas the Martin artisans had a long time ago. I am pretty sure that the REAL differences are in the leadpipe, not the bore though.

    That would not apply to Bach however where the smallish bore Vindabona IMHO is the free-est blowing of the lot. The Schilke, Benge, Holton.......... story is different.

    We buy instruments as a whole. That is also how we need to evaluate them. Bore tells us nothing.
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

  5. #55
    Piano User Bay Area Brass's Avatar
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    Re: What impact does Bore really have ?

    Hi Rowuk, perhaps there are differences in the lead pipe between the medium bore and large bore Committees-that's an interesting thought.
    Bill Ortiz
    '56 Martin Committee Deluxe
    '54 Martin Committee Deluxe
    Marcinkiewicz Vermeer Trumpet
    Couesnon Paris Flugelhorn
    Bob Reeves Mouthpiece Sleeves/PVA
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  6. #56
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    Re: What impact does Bore really have ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markie View Post
    rowuk sez:
    Bore size does NOT determine anything. In the case of Bach, the valve block on the ML and L horns is even the same!

    Manufacturers build horns to meet expectations. If the expectation is "free blowing" associated with L bores, then they pick the leadpipe and bell to do exactly that.

    The resistance that really counts is not that in the horn, rather that in our brains to keep us from believing myths and lies. Once we are truly neutral in our view, we see how useless the bore discussion is. Free blowing just means waste more air for the same job. Efficient means less air for the same job. The right horn means that the air moves at a rate that keeps the player from suffocating, but still allows for long phrases.

    Instead of getting hung up on practice room symptoms, the discussion should be musical in nature. Free blowing does not mean easier to play. Once your chops are together, the bore is insignificant. Your chops determine how well things work.
    --------------
    I don't disagree with you one bit. However, we need to come up with a "term" that describes the characteristics people associate with "bore size" but not call it bore size since bore size is a incorrect term.
    Maybe a way would be to come up with two extremes like:
    loose and tight
    fat and thin
    rich and empoverished
    low calorie and decedent
    jennifer Anisten and Maude
    weak or powerful

  7. #57
    Fortissimo User veery715's Avatar
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    Re: What impact does Bore really have ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markie View Post
    low calorie and decedent
    I fear that is entirely too few calories if it makes you dead!!
    Nothing is more contagious or tenacious than music. Once you are exposed it gets inside you and you can never get rid of it. It is also non-discriminating. It can be Ride of the Valkyries, In a Gadda da Vida, the Jeopardy 15 second thinking tune, your most disliked commercial jingle - it doesn't matter. Once triggered, off you go, like it or not.

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