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Trumpet Discussion Discuss Why I sometimes sound like hate Bach Strad's When I really do not! in the General forums; Ok, My big thing is that people get caught up in the gear to much and give far too much ...
  1. #1
    Banned Mezzo Piano User
    Join Date
    Nov 2008

    Why I sometimes sound like hate Bach Strad's When I really do not!

    Ok, My big thing is that people get caught up in the gear to much and give far too much credit to the gear then the musician. When I was in School no one even dreamed about playing a Bach Strad since all of my fellow students where Army Brat's too and that wasnot part of our reality. We never let it stop us from winning Festivals or from geting schalorships to private Catholic Schools and the like! When I first started to get back in to the trumpet world I was turned off by how snopish and eliteist things seem to be.So part of my disdain is just for the nature of what the trumpet community online seems to have become. In fact it never got in the way of anyone I knew getting a Scholarship or partial ride in college either.

    Now my take onthe Bach Strad's is that they are great instruments and sound wounderful int he hands of a talented musician. I do not like the fact that they are not remotely like the horns that made the name famious. First nothing like borrowing a family name famious for makeing string instruments that rival the best of today's for a brasswind instrument????? On top of that the Bach Strad's of today are not made like the Bach Strad's of the Mont Vernon era and do not sound like them either.It is not unlike General Motor's takeing their Impala SS name from their rear wheel drive 496 cubic inch V8 muscle car's and placeing that name on a Front wheel drive V6 and I4 powered family sedan. While both vechiles do what they where designed to do they are nothing alike. The factory is different, different location, different people working the factory, different materials, different design, less handcrafted part's, no-union, higher price tag etc.............Had they called it anything else other then Bach Strad I would not have ever had an issue with them at all. My issue is not with the instrument so much as the eliteist snob like atmosphere that seems to be takeing over the trumpet world.

    In fact can you imagine how un-cool it would have been if Yamaha had called their Xeno which is basicly their attempt to copy a Bach Strad a Yamaha Stradavarius????In a way that is what the Bach is. It is really a Bach in name alone and nothing else. That does not take away from it's wounderful sound and build it just makes it fake in my eye's. Luckily for Bach my opinion does not count for much.LOL

    I just did not want anyone to think I hate Bach's or Bach Strad's for that matter I just do not lust after them. I would rather have a Gold Plated Vega then a Bach Strad. Different strokes for different folk's! In the end it is all good.

    Oh and if I come off as short that is just my writeing style. I preety much approach everything with a smile on my face and a Sam Adams in my left hand!LOL I do not write well especialy in English so I try to keep my sentences simple and short and I have been told that makes it sound like I am made or angry when in fact I am laughing as I type most things online!!!

  2. #2
    Pianissimo User
    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Re: Why I sometimes sound like hate Bach Strad's When I really do not!

    I own and regularly play a 17 yr. old Bach Strad, a Schilke B-7, a Conn Vintage one Flugel, all great horns, each for it's purpose.

    This is a great site. I once made the mistake of posting my Schilke B-7 purchase (during someone's famous strike!!!) on 'another' trumpet site only to have the post removed and a reprimand sent to my e-mail account. I've NEVER returned to that site for anything. If it hadn't been for the 2+ year strike I would have never found my B-7!!

    I respect your opinion and will continue to use my Strad where appropriate.
    Bach Strad 180S-37
    Conn Vintage One Flugel
    Yamaha 'Student' Flugel

  3. #3
    Piano User
    Join Date
    Nov 2007

    Re: Why I sometimes sound like hate Bach Strad's When I really do not!

    I own a few great horns. One of them is a 1980 Bach 43 lighweight with a 43 leadpipe. Bachs have a distinctive sound to me. I played this one exclusively for about 15 years. It is a really good horn for many different situations. Bachs can be as different as Schilkes. You can find so many different combinations that were offered over the past 40 years or so.This doesn't include the Mt. Vernon, or NY Bachs. Those mods were sometimes less obvious.

    There are the ML 37,43,72 bells with the 25, 25-0 or 43 leadpipes. There are the lightweight models offered with the same bells and leadpipes. Then you have the large bores with 25,37,43, ans 72 bells in regular and lightweight versions. You also have on all of these options. the posibility od having a gold brass bell, and so on.

    The problem is, most people compare Bach to other horns using the 37 standard weight with a 25 leadpipe. This is like saying that a Schilke B1 is like all the other Schilke models. The difference is that Bach did not market the horns as different packages.They offered the different options to the basic Stradivarius.

    Many players that I know do not play the 37/25 Bach Strad. There is nothing wrong with this horn, but it is just a baseline for the Bach options that have been lost over the past few years.

    Pete Grimaldi

  4. #4
    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006

    Re: Why I sometimes sound like hate Bach Strad's When I really do not!

    I think there is generally some growing up to do in the trumpet world. Getting hung up on hardware is only an EXCUSE!

    By the way, who fed you the bull about a Xeno being a Bach copy? That could not be further from the truth. Yamaha did have a 9000 series heavy model which was very Bach like (except that it had immaculate intonation and build consistency). The Xeno represents a unique sound from Yamaha - a real positive development in my opinion!

    As far as new and old Bachs go, there is too much BS here too. A Mount Vernon model is not automatically better. Reports to this nature are wishful thinking. Fact is, YOUR sound varies so greatly depending on the type of room, how much you slept, drank, ate, room temperature, etc that the horn is NEVER the significant factor. There are differences, but the audience picks up on the SOUL of the player. A bit brighter or darker are arguments only for the unemployed.

    To be honest, I could care less what anybody hates. Hate is an emotion that shows lack of character. Generally it is based on some prejudice, not fact. A better attitude is to deal with your prejudices and just become the cooperative colleague. If your chops are together, you are together!
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

  5. #5
    Fortissimo User
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Greenfield WI

    Re: Why I sometimes sound like hate Bach Strad's When I really do not!

    I tend to agree with Rowuk. I am a comeback player who plays a very unfashionable horn. For mouthpiece I think I have settled on a Schilke 14.

    My biggest thing right now is to improve MYSELF. There is no horn that will make me any better, it's only hard work that will make me better.

    My horn is prettier than yours, though, I will say that!


  6. #6
    Forte User Bob Grier's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Greensboro, NC

    Re: Why I sometimes sound like hate Bach Strad's When I really do not!

    The Yamaha Xeno trumpets were designed by Bob Malone not a copy of Bach. There are Bach elitest in orchestral music. Imagine their suprise when the conductor compliments me on my sound and I'm playing a Schilke B5.
    Bob Grier, An Old Pro
    Web Cam trumpet & jazz improvisation lessons

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