Beethoven 7th: trumpet choice

Albert Castillo · 10-26-2006, 11:47 AM

So, Beethoven 7th comes next year (for a freelance job). I played it always just with the C trumpet, but last time with both C and picc (for the third movement trio, and I'll do it never again, because I don't like picc sound in this excerpt). I wondered always, why so a sort of problem with this "easy" work. Last year, the broadcasting with the Symphony orchestra of the bavarian radio was not so good. The player said me, he was always, after many years, negatively surprised: "sh_t , I forgot again, it was not so easy!"
I readed that Herseth and Scarlett just used a pair of E trumpets from Schilke.
What's your opinion about?

I like a open C trumpet type of sound. Anyone does use too a E trumpet, or a D ?

cornetguy · 10-26-2006, 12:43 PM

I did it a couple years ago, I used my large bore long model eb/d with the d slides in. it has the same bell as c trumpet (239) and worked just fine.

MrClean · 10-26-2006, 03:12 PM

The first time I played it, I used an old Monke rotary D. Not easy.

Subsequent performances were on a piston C - not easy, but considerably more manageable. Lately I've been using my rotary C with good results, although probably still not optimum. If I could track down a superb rotary D, that would probably be my choice of horn. It does lock you into open Gs in the third mvt, which could be problematic as they tend to be rather sharp on many instruments.

When I was in school, we didn't play much Beethoven. It wasn't until I was out working that I discovered how taxing those symphonies really are. The 7th and 9th are bears, and the 5th isn't exactly a walk in the park, either...

J

ecarroll · 10-26-2006, 03:44 PM

I always played the piston C and, later, a terrific rotary C (Lechner)

It's funny -- if you do a great job on these tunes nobody notices, and if you screw up EVERYBODY notices. A metaphor for many things in life?

Best,
EC

Johntpt · 10-27-2006, 09:46 AM

I've used my Schilke Eb with a Bach bell for this a few times, and if you can deal with the transposition, it works quite well. Recently my orchestra bought me a nice Thein rotary D, and I'll use that the next time B7 comes up.

JU

loudog · 10-27-2006, 04:31 PM

Hey MrClean,

Mike Thompson in Omaha has a really super rotary D trumpet for sale. I've played it, and it's just excellent!! Easily one of the best Rotaries I've ever played, period. Kinda strange that it was a D trumpet.

www.thompsonmusic.com

I can vouch for him as a businessman, great trumpet player and a great guy!

Just FYI, they also have a really nice gold plated Monette 2000LT C trumpet for sale, which is a GREAT trumpet!! ;)

Louie

trombapaul · 10-28-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrClean

The first time I played it, I used an old Monke rotary D. Not easy.

Subsequent performances were on a piston C - not easy, but considerably more manageable. Lately I've been using my rotary C with good results, although probably still not optimum. If I could track down a superb rotary D, that would probably be my choice of horn. It does lock you into open Gs in the third mvt, which could be problematic as they tend to be rather sharp on many instruments.

When I was in school, we didn't play much Beethoven. It wasn't until I was out working that I discovered how taxing those symphonies really are. The 7th and 9th are bears, and the 5th isn't exactly a walk in the park, either...

J

Hey Jim,

Did it just a couple of weeks ago on a rotary C and it WAS a fight towards
the end. All through rehearsals, the conductor did not take any repeats
which makes it quite reasonable. Did we perform it that way? OH NO!!! All
repeats were good (and then some it seemed). I've done it on a piston C
in the past and it is a bit more manageable but I prefer the sound of the
rotary. A rotary D would have been perfect!! Regardless of what horn is in
my hands, it's my absolute favorite Beethoven symphony to perform.

Paul

Albert Castillo · 10-29-2006, 09:04 AM

Yes, the rotary would be the best.
I think I would try my new rotary C. Sadly, I don't have any rotary D.
I should admit, that last time I played it, the problem wasn't me, but the conductor, one of the many Celibidache's student here in Munich. The tempo was the hell, and the high A not so easy to play steady and in tune on so a long phrase. Too, he wouldn't let me to breath, so I should to play the 16 measures, without breathing and so loud and long, as expected from Celi self. After the last concerts all windplayers wanted to invite me for a beer!!!
A smaller instrument is desirable, but I don't like ( in the context of this Symphony ) the sound of the smaller bells. Because of that, I thought about a big D bell or E bell, of a normal C size.
I think Herseth played it with the Bell he used for the Hummel ( a C size), and wanted to know if someone tried this option instead a D trumpet.

trumpetdon · 10-31-2006, 12:42 AM

Great topic. Just performed Beethoven 7 yesterday with the Evanston Symphony. I was unsure as to what horn I would play it on until about three weeks ago. Played it through in my studio on Bach/Malone C, Destino C, E3L in both Eb and D with 4 different bells, Bach/Melk 229 in Eb, Bach 239 in D, even Yamaha in F. Decided on my Lechner C. The tuning on my Eb and D trumpets of the many concert A's I felt would be too risky in the orchestra, though the sound with the larger bells was good. Unless I had some sort of pitchfinder or movable bell I wouldn't do it.
The Lechner had a very satisfying sound, and very secure. No problems at all with the soft stuff like the pianissimo concert G's in the second movement. I normally play the Lechner with either a JK 4B, a Parke 300 depth cup, or a GR Deep Flugel mpc with a trumpet shank, but for the Beethoven I used my regular piston Bb and C mouthpiece (custom by GR). I had Brahms Tragic Overture and Mozart Piano Concerto 21 on the same program, so used the Lechner for everything, with the flugel/trumpet mpc on the Mozart. It is really fun to play that soft and delicate and still be comfortable and secure.

Albert Castillo · 11-02-2006, 05:02 AM

Yes, of course, about sound, the rotary C is the very best here.

10-26-2006, 11:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
Albert Castillo Pianissimo User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Munich Brand: Schagerl-Breslmair Posts: 107	Beethoven 7th: trumpet choice So, Beethoven 7th comes next year (for a freelance job). I played it always just with the C trumpet, but last time with both C and picc (for the third movement trio, and I'll do it never again, because I don't like picc sound in this excerpt). I wondered always, why so a sort of problem with this "easy" work. Last year, the broadcasting with the Symphony orchestra of the bavarian radio was not so good. The player said me, he was always, after many years, negatively surprised: "sh_t , I forgot again, it was not so easy!" I readed that Herseth and Scarlett just used a pair of E trumpets from Schilke. What's your opinion about? I like a open C trumpet type of sound. Anyone does use too a E trumpet, or a D ? Last edited by Albert Castillo : 10-26-2006 at 11:49 AM.
	__________________ Albert A. Castillo

10-26-2006, 12:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
cornetguy Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Saint Paul, MN Brand: Yamaha, Bach, Getzen Posts: 719	I did it a couple years ago, I used my large bore long model eb/d with the d slides in. it has the same bell as c trumpet (239) and worked just fine.
	__________________ Res Severa Verum Gaudium

10-27-2006, 04:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
loudog Pianissimo User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Brand: Bach, Blackburn Posts: 150	Hey MrClean, Mike Thompson in Omaha has a really super rotary D trumpet for sale. I've played it, and it's just excellent!! Easily one of the best Rotaries I've ever played, period. Kinda strange that it was a D trumpet. www.thompsonmusic.com I can vouch for him as a businessman, great trumpet player and a great guy! Just FYI, they also have a really nice gold plated Monette 2000LT C trumpet for sale, which is a GREAT trumpet!! ;) Louie
	__________________ Louie Eckhardt, MM Freelance Trumpeter Performance and Instruction http://www.LouieEckhardt.com

10-29-2006, 09:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
Albert Castillo Pianissimo User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Munich Brand: Schagerl-Breslmair Posts: 107	Yes, the rotary would be the best. I think I would try my new rotary C. Sadly, I don't have any rotary D. I should admit, that last time I played it, the problem wasn't me, but the conductor, one of the many Celibidache's student here in Munich. The tempo was the hell, and the high A not so easy to play steady and in tune on so a long phrase. Too, he wouldn't let me to breath, so I should to play the 16 measures, without breathing and so loud and long, as expected from Celi self. After the last concerts all windplayers wanted to invite me for a beer!!! A smaller instrument is desirable, but I don't like ( in the context of this Symphony ) the sound of the smaller bells. Because of that, I thought about a big D bell or E bell, of a normal C size. I think Herseth played it with the Bell he used for the Hummel ( a C size), and wanted to know if someone tried this option instead a D trumpet.
	__________________ Albert A. Castillo

10-31-2006, 12:42 AM	#9 (permalink)
trumpetdon New Friend Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 11	Great topic. Just performed Beethoven 7 yesterday with the Evanston Symphony. I was unsure as to what horn I would play it on until about three weeks ago. Played it through in my studio on Bach/Malone C, Destino C, E3L in both Eb and D with 4 different bells, Bach/Melk 229 in Eb, Bach 239 in D, even Yamaha in F. Decided on my Lechner C. The tuning on my Eb and D trumpets of the many concert A's I felt would be too risky in the orchestra, though the sound with the larger bells was good. Unless I had some sort of pitchfinder or movable bell I wouldn't do it. The Lechner had a very satisfying sound, and very secure. No problems at all with the soft stuff like the pianissimo concert G's in the second movement. I normally play the Lechner with either a JK 4B, a Parke 300 depth cup, or a GR Deep Flugel mpc with a trumpet shank, but for the Beethoven I used my regular piston Bb and C mouthpiece (custom by GR). I had Brahms Tragic Overture and Mozart Piano Concerto 21 on the same program, so used the Lechner for everything, with the flugel/trumpet mpc on the Mozart. It is really fun to play that soft and delicate and still be comfortable and secure.
trumpetdon New Friend Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 11

10-26-2006, 03:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
MrClean Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 228	The first time I played it, I used an old Monke rotary D. Not easy. Subsequent performances were on a piston C - not easy, but considerably more manageable. Lately I've been using my rotary C with good results, although probably still not optimum. If I could track down a superb rotary D, that would probably be my choice of horn. It does lock you into open Gs in the third mvt, which could be problematic as they tend to be rather sharp on many instruments. When I was in school, we didn't play much Beethoven. It wasn't until I was out working that I discovered how taxing those symphonies really are. The 7th and 9th are bears, and the 5th isn't exactly a walk in the park, either... J

10-26-2006, 03:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
ecarroll Artist in Residence Forte User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH/CA/PQ Posts: 1,380	I always played the piston C and, later, a terrific rotary C (Lechner) It's funny -- if you do a great job on these tunes nobody notices, and if you screw up EVERYBODY notices. A metaphor for many things in life? Best, EC

10-27-2006, 09:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
Johntpt Pianissimo User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Toluca, Mexico Posts: 157	I've used my Schilke Eb with a Bach bell for this a few times, and if you can deal with the transposition, it works quite well. Recently my orchestra bought me a nice Thein rotary D, and I'll use that the next time B7 comes up. JU

11-02-2006, 05:02 AM	#10 (permalink)
Albert Castillo Pianissimo User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Munich Brand: Schagerl-Breslmair Posts: 107	Yes, of course, about sound, the rotary C is the very best here.
	__________________ Albert A. Castillo

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