sonarerocks

Just thinking out loud, but ( rowuk may be able to shed light on this) why do the guys in the berlin phil ( or whatever they call it) use rotary trumpets as opposed to a piston valve, is the sound that much different or tradition?

trumpetnick

The answer is not that simple.
They really sound different. For many reasons, but I will leave to others to explain why.
The second part of the story is tradition. German and Austrian orchestras use for a long time...it is kind of benchmark. German/Austrian=rotary. British/French/American=piston. That's very simplistic explication, but it reflects the reality more or less. You will see, of course, Germans playing on a piston and British who play on a rotary as their primary instrument choice, but that's rather an exception.

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Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

Vulgano Brother

A lot is tradition, of course, but for me, a huge difference lies with character of sound in regard to dynamics.

(In general, the type of valve doesn't make as much difference as its location--the rotors are located about 30% of the way down the horn; pistons 60%. The rotaries tend to have a bigger bell and more straight tubing than the piston trumpet, as well.)

A rotary will start sounding mf, f, and ff at lower sound-pressure levels than the piston trumpet, an advantage in smaller, more intimate halls.

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rowuk

The german trumpet has different sounds when played in the low, medium or high register. The piston is more consistent. The piston will start to distort and get edge sooner than the rotary counterpart. Players used to the rotary find many piston trumpets more "sterile" in sound. Piston trumpets are actually not even trumpets, they are mega cornets. due to the long leadpipe and bell taper, they are primarily conical. The rotary trumpet only has a short leadpipe. The rest is cylindrical - making it a true trumpet.
The rotary valves wear MUCH less than pistons due to the contct to the case only occurring at the bearing surface on the top and bottom.
The rotary valves are more like a switch - on or off. The pistons "smear" the sound when they are in motion.

Like in the states, we play what we are used to. The tradition here means that the rotary trumpet is here to stay.

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

hup_d_dup

The rotary trumpets I've seen have a Rube Goldberg-like linkage to push out the 3rd valve slide using the thumb of the left hand, and no adjustment for the 1st valve slide. Seems like a limitation.

I have a DVD recording of the Tchaikovsky 4th (Berlin/Karajan) in which rotary trumpets are used. The sound is very penetrating but rather harsh to my taste.

trumpetnick

Some rotary trumpets have a double trigger which moves both 1st and 3rd slide trigger
and even of they don't you can move the 1st by your right hand thumb - that's what the slide's "bud" is made for.

__________________
Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

rowuk

NEVER BELIEVE THAT RECORDINGS GIVE YOU A GOOD PICTURE OF WHAT A TRUMPET SOUNDS LIKE.

Believe me, the Berlin Phil sound was NEVER harsh. Konni Groth and Martin Kretzer are both world class players that have it all.

The only limitations are with the players. Hardware has been a non issue for centuries. Audiences pay for a decent performance and pro players do what is necessary. I have no trigger on my rotary and no trouble in ensemble.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

ExtraTeeth

I recently acquired a Scherzer 8218 Bb rotary and while I'm no more than an enthusiastic intermediate level amateur, I can confidently say it's a completely different instrument to any piston valve I've ever played. A big, dark complex sound that is more physically demanding. I suppose that extra sound has to come from somewhere. Try one if you can, I think you will be surprised.