Alex Yates

Chicken Little

It's a tough read, but some things needed to be said.

gregc

I liked that. Funny, and truthfull.
gregc

wiseone2

Oh......I don't know. Maybe it's time for some of the grey and balding to take up the pursuit.
The age obsession in this country is down right silly. The youngest this. The youngest that, In the last century, before Child Labor Laws, Harry Glantz had several first trumpet gigs with orchestras before he was twenty! Who is the oldest trumpet player to get a first trumpet job? Some of us geezers can still play
Wilmer

NickD

Interesting reading, Alex. Thanks for alerting us to it.

I have a different take on it, I think, but I could be wrong!

Ok, the age thing is something that bugs me. A long time ago, I was bugged when I was young whipper-snapper who thought he was real good (I THOUGHT I was real good - actually had a lot to learn). Now, I'm bugged because I get young whipper-snappers who think I should be ingorned because there's some "snow appearing on my roof."

I met Wynton Marsailis when he was 19. I was on Maynard's band and we were playing at the Atlantic City Jazz Festival. Art Blakey was going on ahead of us. A 19 year old Wynton was just tearing it up. I was astonished. I hung around to meet him and think him for sharing. Certainly Wynton qualified for the "wunderkind" that Mr. Morris war referring to. However, I was glad to hear and learn from this young man.

I don't see a cause for a "sky is falling" panic that he is referring to. Sure there may be some extrordinarily young musicians getting these coveted gigs. That's fine! I don't think we should EVER reject the gifts of the young! Herseth himself was pretty young when he got the CSO gig. Clifford Brown and Charlie Parker were doing amazing things when they were really young. Cool!

What bothered me just a little bit was the fact that Morris put the notion of "some flowers bloom in spring and other bloom int he fall," off to the end of his tirade almost as an afterthought.

While I would argue strongly that we shouldn't reject the gifts of the young, I would argue even more strongly that we shouldn't reject the growth of the seasoned! Old dogs CAN learn new tricks! Don't kid yourself! The idea that a seasoned, or dare I say it, an OLDER musician should not be expected to be innovative or vital is flat out wrong, IMHO.

When one looks at the current CD's out there, there would appear to be an obesssion with youth, to the exclusion of experience. That is troubling, but no need for "the sky is falling." Those who qualified as seasoned have the life's experiences to realize that you keep on chuggin' if you believe in what you are doing, never yeilding to discouragement.

I would argue that the cause for the "sky is falling" freak out Mr. Morris is alluding to should not be brought on by the fact that some very young people are achieving geat success early on. The concern, IMHO, is the glut of highly qualified players who are available for a dwindling number of openings.

I wonder if My. Morris' article would have a differnt tone if, instead of an orchestra hiring a young wunderkind, they hired a player, in his 60's who had never played in an orchestra in his/her life and then decided to just dedicate himself/herself to learning the literature and then got the gig. Things to make you go, "hmmmmm..." Granted, it is more likely that the audition committee would almsot immediately dismiss a candidate in the finals at the point, but it might happen.

Reminds me of an old joke: " Three trumpeters walked by a bar one day...
.
.
.
It could happen!"

OK, I'll shut up.

Peace from a noveau geezer.

NickD

I think we were posting at the same time, Wilmer! Yeah man!



Nick

Alex Yates

Quoting Nick:

"I would argue that the cause for the "sky is falling" freak out Mr. Morris is alluding to should not be brought on by the fact that some very young people are achieving geat success early on. The concern, IMHO, is the glut of highly qualified players who are available for a dwindling number of openings."

And that is what hits a nerve with me. In almost any other field, experience counts for something, but in ours, it is almost seen as a detriment. The orchestra positions are becoming like a revolving door because most audition monsters at young ages cannot handle the heat on the job week after week due to LACK OF EXPERIENCE. There are exceptions, but I am finding the trend to be ridiculous. I also feel that some of these extremely young players are being allowed to have on the job training rather than work their way up or they are being paid to practice until they are truly good enough. Neither of those scenarios sits well with me. I understand that young players winning jobs is nothing new, but "back in the day" there were many more options and a lot more "live" musicians being employed. (studio orchestras, theater orchestras, television orchestras, etc.) With the field being shaved down to a nub of opportunity, these are indeed coveted jobs. I have heard youngsters play the Tomasi perfectly and a year or two later, are unable to do it at all. Things can and do happen emotionally and psychologically that basically inhibit some of these players from ever regaining their former level of ability. This is where I scratch my head a bit.

Regardless of how I feel, I can see your take on the article Nick. There is no one answer or one problem. It is frustrating at best. The world needs more beauty in the form of quality music by trained, passionate musicians of all ages, but there just doesn't seem to be a place in today's society for it. (touching on the youth obsession) We are so "here today, gone tomorrow" and could care less about placing value on anything that has ripened with time.

uatrmpt

I don't pretend to know Mr. Morris, or what it's like to play at that level, but I wonder if some of his comments would be different if he were still playing with the CSO and wonderkid Martin were getting a position with a different orchestra, and not the same seat he couldn't keep.

wiseone2

You're right in saying, "You don't know."
Wilmer

Benjamin

My interpretation of this comes from a different angle than most of you. I understand it more to be along the lines of this:

"Man, I am working all day long, month after month, and I haven´t been able to get past this part (or land that special gig)."

"Holy shlt, a 14 year old comes along and wips through Carnival of Venice like he has been practicing it for 40 years and I haven´t made it past the 2nd variation."

"Man, why am I wasting my time with this. Maybe I should re-evaluate my life and see if I need to go in a different direction."

The point is that at one time or another most of us have felt what Mr. Morris is describing. The TRUE POINT is to come back to the love that you have for music and for the trumpet and not get caught up in the highly ambicious, and competitive attitudes that can be very easy to take on and only lead to the type of frustration that Mr. Morris is describing.

I really don´t think it had anything to do about older players not being able to play at all. Some flowers bloom early and stay in bloom for a long time. Some flowers bloom late and some early...the variations are endless.

Ben

uatrmpt

Do you not think that he might have experienced some of the frustration he writes about? Experiences, good or bad, color ones outlook from the time they happen until that person's days are over. My teacher told the story of how he won an audition at a major orchestra, but the position was given to the conductor's preference. In another audition, he came in second to a person who is now a famous trumpet soloist. This famous soloist only stayed for a few years before leaving the gig. He's also auditioned for his hometown orchestra several times, but has had the worst auditions of his life then. He's over it, but those experiences have colored his perception of those people and made him pretty greatful for his current gig. Notice that I did not say HOW Mr. Martin's experiences have affected his writing. Did I say he was bitter, nope. Did I say he was jealous, nope. What I am saying those, is that he would not have been able to write that particular article if he were still sitting in that particular seat.