NickD

OK, I had an wonderful gig last night with the John Burnett big band. I played the second book (my prefered book these days), Brent Turney played lead, Dave Hibbard played third and Tony Ponz played fourth. It was an excellent section and the evening was pleasant.

During our breaks we were talking shop - horns, valve oil, chops, players, recordings, etc... Along the way the discussion covered the times when a few of us had heard some of the legendary players whome we all KNOW AND LOVE and HONOR, just flat out play badly - a bad streak or a bad night - and RESOUNDINGLY bad. We even commented on one player who (a Chicago jazz legend) who is exciting because you never really know what is going to happen until the gig hits!!! It is alomst part of his charm and charisma.

Our conversation was not about attacking great players. We ALL respected those folks we were talking about. Our drift was towards that idea that ANYONE can mess up once in a while, and it shouldn't be that big a deal.

Now I am NOT going to name names. I would hope that any responses to this thread would do the same. The names I am thinking of though are BIG TIME - the kind players whose solos we transcribe.

The point is this: I have heard many folks take a pot shot at a player - a bad review of a gig or concert or performance somewhere. Often these bad reviews are on listservs or forums. More often than not, folks try to be thoughtful in doing so, but on occassion I have seen some pretty incendiary post performance reviews.

I would encourage honesty. Allowing hero worship to cloud things up isn't good. However, there is nothing to be gained by running someone into the ground for having a bad night. If I were to go hear one of my favorites deliver a stellar performance, I would post about it - sharing the joy. If, on the other hand, that performer had an off night, I think I'd just let it go. To make a big thing out of it would come off more like I was relishing someone elses trials as opposed to sounding intellectual about a concert. In fact, I think I would go so far as to FIND the good in EVERY performance! There is ALWAYS something! It's that good that is really important in the first place.

Finally, I think we can often be the hardest on EACH OTHER. OK, the legendary players out there - the big names - often can get away with off nights easier than the rest of us can. The rank and file top fight pros can get really rough on each other, though! I have wintessed it and been on the receiving end of it! OK, in my younger days, I may have even dished it up a little bit. I'm not proud of that, and I have been striving to NOT allow that sort of behavior into my thinking any more.

Even a bad night is a good night, if you're playing a trumpet!!

OK, I'm rambling a bit. I hope this make sense sort of!

OK, TTFN!

ND

mike ansberry

I once saw a world famous trumpet player at an ITG concert walk out on stage, play a couple of phrases (VERY badly), apologize to the audience, and walk off stage. I had all kinds of emotions about that. You really empathize with another trumpet player having a bad day. You sit there and feel the pain of having that kind of experience. But at the same time (I'm ashamed to admit) it made me feel better about the times that it happens to me.

NickD

Mike,

I don't think you need to feel ashamed about the notion that the experience made you feel better about when it happens to you. That's the point, I think. NONE of us should feel awful if a performance doesn't go our way! I don't read your experience as saying that you relished the other mans hardship. You were actually feeling for him. I wonder how many folks were indignant or ran out and bad mouthed him. I might suspect that, if he was a very famous respeceted player, few did. However, I might guess that things might have been different if it were a lesser known player perhaps making an ITG debut. I dunno... Somettimes trumpeters can be be a tough crowd.

I remember talking to a VERY famous trumpeter -lead and jazz -STELLAR - refer to another very famous and highly successful trumpeter as "captain fold" and then go on a tirade about how this guy didn't deserve the accolades. I was, frankly, stunned and a bit put off. The guy dishing it up is so highly respected as to not need to do this. he is also a very nice guy as a rule, and this behavior was quite uncharacteristic of him.

Now, I was at the ITG for one evening and one day last June. I had a WONDERFUL time. I did not expect to play, but got asked to blow at the first evening jam session, with no warm up and after a busy week at school. I felt woefully unprepared, but I did NOT feel intimidated. This isn't because I'm that good or that the players at the weren't heavy (they were HUGELY heavy!!!). It's just that everyone was so nice.

So, I guess I just don't really know what to expect, sometimes. I guess the break conversation last night just got me to thinking, adn i was intrigued by seeing waht sort of discussion might ensue here at TM, my favorite www trumpet forum!

Gotta run!

Nick

wilcox96

I just find it almost comforting...and grounding...that even the greats have an off day or moment. It reminds us we are "all" humans and can simply not have it right then. Everybody...I mean "everybody" has had these moments. I think we can all use that notion to get past the times it happens to us - individually. Wow...to consider our heros admitting or experiencing humanity?? If it can happen to them... maybe it's not so bad for the rest of us. They are still our heros....

To take it to an extreme... I worked with a very fine player (instrument does not matter, as I'm keeping this generic) who consistently played well across a variety of genres and settings. One particular night, out of the blue, this player frapped a very exposed moment. Still, with much more playing to follow, they were able to get through the rest of the exposed section flawlessly. To suck it up and get through the rest of it - to me - showed great character. Now, they felt horrible after the fact. The kicker? They got fired from future contracts. I know, you are supposed to be at your best at these moments. However, it would seem a history of excellence might be weighed against "one", or even a few, moments. Which....I think is Nick's point.

That was my consolation to this person. One moment does not (or perhaps, "should" not) erase a lifetime of excellence.

We aren't defined by one moment...but by a lifetime of moments.

NickD

I love the closer on your post! I think that really sums it up greatly!

I was once fired from a steady gig which caused me much pain. Granted, I had some difficult moments leading up to the point where I got canned. However, the summer I got let go I was seriously on the mend. My playing had come back after a bad spell, and I could demonstrate this. The frustration for ME was that I found out I was getting seriously bad mouthed behind my back by some of the rest of the folks in the band. I had taken to keeping to myself a bit - not going to the bar with the guys in the band after gigs. A buddy of mine kept aksing me, "why don't you hang out? It might be a good idea." I explained that, part of my re-couping and growth process included being quiet after gigs, and there was no personal slam intended by my abscence. It turned out he was trying to get me to trun up to defend myself a bit. Well at least one dude was being helpful.

The reason the contractor offered to me when he let me go was that, "Now that you have a day gig, you can't maintain your playing, so we'll need to replace you." The darn thing for me was that, it was my day gig that gave me the time to rebuild my chops after some difficulties surfaced.

Now, this was over 15 years ago, and I'm cool with this history, now. This definitely shades how I look at other players when they might experience some difficulty, now and then.

OK, I'm rambling.

TTFN

ND

Tootsall

Even Tiger Woods has "OFF" days! Nobody says that he's washed up, is all hype, can't play, it's a myth.... they just say "he had an off day".

It can happen to any of us: I'll admit to "pooching it" a couple of times in my career in projects I was managing... big deal. Learn and move on.

VERY excellent points, guys.

trpt2345

EVERY trumpet player has bad nights. Miles had bad nights, and I heard several of them, and Miles did not play mechanically, so when there was nothing happening there was really nothing happening. I heard Roy Eldridge stink up the joint one night (and others where he chased the young whipper snappers out the room). Even Wynton by his own admission has bad nights. The trumpet just be that way. The trick is to have your level high enough that even on a bad night it's still acceptable at least. One of my favorite Miles quotes:"My job is to play eight good measures a night-and to keep you from knowing which measures they are."

Michael McLaughlin

Only sick music makes money today.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Deecy

There's an anecdote about Bobby Hackett who, when crossing the Canadian border into the U.S. was asked by a border official whether the case on the back seat of Bobby's car contained a musical instrument.
Hackett is said to have replied, "Yes, sometimes."

Schwab

Off topic, Brent Turney is one of my good friends, we went to high school together. Say hey for me if you see him around Nick.

krossum

My thoughts lie along the lines of Michael's, but even more severe. A pro player is only as good as his worst day. I've been in situations where the schedule demands my playing to be at an extremely high level; while at the same time suffering from debilitating colds/flu/fatigue. In those situations, my playing is never as good as I'd like - but it's always functional. I think there is a point where non-professional musicians have to decide whether their bad day is to the point of non-performance; is it better to sub-out the gig/ cancel the performance, or turn in a sub-standard version of your trumpeting self.

The trumpeters, of whom I greatly admire, sound very, very good on their worst days. I do give some exceptions to those at the end of their careers; I do believe that's a different situation.

hmmm.
-Kelly