How did you learn to improvise? - Page 2

MrTrimmings · 09-07-2009, 04:40 AM

Oh and I forgot....record yourself and listen back. Also try to emulate things you hear in all types of music, be passionate and it will sound original. Barf Jazz? PuhLease!!!

Bob Grier · 09-07-2009, 01:39 PM

I surprised that no one has mention studying melodic construction Scales, patterns, harmonic theory (vertical and horizonal) and rhythm are the words we use to speak the jazz language. Melodic construction shows use how to take that vocabulary and consruct a musical sentence ( melody).

The Kraken · 09-09-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsmonks

I'm always reluctant when it comes to methods and studying "the masters". Sure, if you want to sound like everyone else.

I'm not saying that the above should be avoided- not at all, and quite the opposite. But I hear precious little originality these days, and far too much what I call "barf" jazz. Jamey Aebersold books teach what I think of as "barf" jazz. Perhaps it's because I have an instinct to shoot anyone I catch playing ii-V-I.

Thelonious Monk, Ornette Coleman and Cecil Taylor worked at their own thing for years and took great pains to develop a following. A little-known fact about Miles Davis is that he started out as a Dizzy Gillespe clone. Yes, he really could play like Diz in the early days. He also spent his life running for daylight like a good football receiver, finding the open ground and inventing.

I hear lots of guys who can play like fiends these days but precious few who can surprise me.

Interesting term you use "barf" jazz, but I thought the question was how you learned, not opinion.
In any case thanks for the new word you have taught me "barf". I will now barf my in my trumpet and hope it sounds better the second time around.

Amberjak1 · 09-10-2009, 03:37 AM

I can't really tell you how or the "secrets" of improv but I can tell you what I was told by one of the greats. I was at a jazz festival in New Orleans and I had the great honor of meeting and talking to Doc Severinsen. I had asked him pretty much the same question. All he told me was to close my eyes, open my heart and "feel" the music. And practice alot. I would have to say practice, practice, practice. Put on a CD and play along. The first few times it will sound horrible but keep at it. A year later I did my first improv to a crowd at a jazz festival in New Orleans on stage with 2000+ people listening. But I did what I was told, closed my eyes, felt the music and played from the heart. I thought it sounded like crap but... I took first place and was given a full music scholarship to Loyola University in New Orleans. Be the toughest critic of your music and you should be fine.

gsmonks · 09-10-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Kraken

Interesting term you use "barf" jazz, but I thought the question was how you learned, not opinion.
In any case thanks for the new word you have taught me "barf". I will now barf my in my trumpet and hope it sounds better the second time around.

Sorry- the mere mention of those Aebersold books makes me act weird.

I learned to improvise by playing in a little group. We'd make up simple chord progressions in the beginning, and got more complicated over time. In fact, when we started, we'd jam on one chord until we'd got it sorted. From there it was figuring out how to play lines through various types of changes.

From there we used the Count Basey method a lot. It's still my favourite.

The Kraken · 09-10-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsmonks

Sorry- the mere mention of those Aebersold books makes me act weird.

I learned to improvise by playing in a little group. We'd make up simple chord progressions in the beginning, and got more complicated over time. In fact, when we started, we'd jam on one chord until we'd got it sorted. From there it was figuring out how to play lines through various types of changes.

From there we used the Count Basey method a lot. It's still my favourite.

Well Aebersold was my first introduction recommended by a trumpet teacher from a local music store about 7 years ago.
The main thing they taught me was to work on scales, hell I did not even know there was any thing such as BLUES scales until I got some of the books.
I mainly practice the scales from the books and try to play along to the recordings with some of my own articulations.

The biggest impact the books have given me is that even I can improvise as long as I know my scales, I actually surprise myself sometimes.
I think I have come along way since I never had any formal training, I learned by ear, I finely decided to get some instruction 7 years ago and try to learn to read music. I'm having fun learning now.

Bay Area Brass · 09-10-2009, 07:08 PM

My advice is that if you are trying to learn how to improvise in jazz, step one is learn how and what to play on a blues. That's the foundation of not only jazz but other forms of music like R & B, rock etc, Happy studies :)

The Kraken · 09-10-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bay Area Brass

My advice is that if you are trying to learn how to improvise in jazz, step one is learn how and what to play on a blues. That's the foundation of not only jazz but other forms of music like R & B, rock etc, Happy studies :)

Thank You

mike.everio · 09-12-2009, 04:51 AM

my friends Mike Everio , Alison Sharman ,Christopher Freville completed there training on 22nd January 2004 and they are now in professional field , me also want to come in this field , any suggestions ???

gsmonks · 09-15-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bay Area Brass

My advice is that if you are trying to learn how to improvise in jazz, step one is learn how and what to play on a blues. That's the foundation of not only jazz but other forms of music like R & B, rock etc, Happy studies :)

Hmf. We'll have to agree to disagree. Similar advice was given to Arnold Schoenburg ("Study the classics, kid!"), which he chose to ignore, citing that a study of the past isn't essential when it comes to things new and original.

Stravinsky, Bartok, Hindemith and others spent a lot of time in such study, but the lack of it didn't seem to damage Schoenburg at all.

I have an aversion to museums, too. My belief is that all old art should be burned to make way for the new. I've always been wary of an attachment to art objects of any kind because it is the ability to make art, not the resulting artifacts themselves, that is important.

Old jazz recordings, in that vein, are not recordings of jazz, but rather are a record that jazz had once taken place. The moment itself is long gone.

I can feel disagreement brewing . . .

09-07-2009, 04:40 AM	#11
MrTrimmings New Friend Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland,OR Posts: 36	Re: How did you learn to improvise? Oh and I forgot....record yourself and listen back. Also try to emulate things you hear in all types of music, be passionate and it will sound original. Barf Jazz? PuhLease!!! __________________ Nobody said it was gonna be easy folks! Bill Schonley

09-07-2009, 01:39 PM	#12
Bob Grier Mezzo Forte User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 743	Re: How did you learn to improvise? I surprised that no one has mention studying melodic construction Scales, patterns, harmonic theory (vertical and horizonal) and rhythm are the words we use to speak the jazz language. Melodic construction shows use how to take that vocabulary and consruct a musical sentence ( melody). __________________ Bob Grier, An Old Pro Web Cam trumpet & jazz improvisation lessons bgrierjr@triad.rr.com Schilke B5 GB bell NY Bach ML 37GB Bb 1949 Benge 7X 1985 Conn 22B 1940s King Liberty Silversonic 1975 King Master Model Siversonic cornet 1975 1985 Bach C L 229GB 25A 1985 Bach D ML 239 1985 Bach Eb ML 239 1967 Martin C ML rose brass bell 1985 Selmer Paris Picc with Osmun A pipe & Blackburn Bb pipe 1975 Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn 1985 Yamaha YFH 635T Flugelhorn

09-10-2009, 03:37 AM	#14
Amberjak1 New Friend Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3	Re: How did you learn to improvise? I can't really tell you how or the "secrets" of improv but I can tell you what I was told by one of the greats. I was at a jazz festival in New Orleans and I had the great honor of meeting and talking to Doc Severinsen. I had asked him pretty much the same question. All he told me was to close my eyes, open my heart and "feel" the music. And practice alot. I would have to say practice, practice, practice. Put on a CD and play along. The first few times it will sound horrible but keep at it. A year later I did my first improv to a crowd at a jazz festival in New Orleans on stage with 2000+ people listening. But I did what I was told, closed my eyes, felt the music and played from the heart. I thought it sounded like crap but... I took first place and was given a full music scholarship to Loyola University in New Orleans. Be the toughest critic of your music and you should be fine.

09-10-2009, 07:08 PM	#17
Bay Area Brass Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Francisco Posts: 103	Re: How did you learn to improvise? My advice is that if you are trying to learn how to improvise in jazz, step one is learn how and what to play on a blues. That's the foundation of not only jazz but other forms of music like R & B, rock etc, Happy studies :) __________________ Bill Ortiz '56 Matin Committee Deluxe Trumpet/Schilke 15 mouthpiece '74 Getzen 3 Valve Flugelhorn billortiz.com myspace.com/billortizmusic

09-12-2009, 04:51 AM	#19
mike.everio New Friend Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1	Re: How did you learn to improvise? my friends Mike Everio , Alison Sharman ,Christopher Freville completed there training on 22nd January 2004 and they are now in professional field , me also want to come in this field , any suggestions ???

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