gsmonks

As they say, you're entitled to your opinion.

If a desire for innovation and progress isn't constructive, then I'm an aardvark.

Markie

gsmonk says:
I'm always reluctant when it comes to methods and studying "the masters". Sure, if you want to sound like everyone else.
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WHAT!?! Is this an epsode of Punk'd,
Your statement is as wrong as it can be.
Let me get this right. You think by studying the masters, you'll end up sounding like them?
I wonder if you're not confused between the sound (that unique quality in the voice of the musician) and the style(the particular way they approach a song).
Never the less, your simple little statement says to those who have studied for decades that you have a rude arrogance that far outweighs your knowledge base.
I study the masters because they show me what can be done with the horn. I study the masters so I can improve on me. I study the masters because it inspires.
"You have to immitate before you innovate".
Why the heck would you want to play an instrument if you don't like to listen to someone else playing it?
Better stated, How in the heck can you get to any level of proficency if you don't listen to others that can do it?
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Also, as far as Aebersold being Barf jazz and hating a ii V7 I progression, more statements which displays an arrogance that outweighs your knowledge base.
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Please, if you're gonna post really dumb stuff, do it on the Hearld.

Bay Area Brass

Innovation and progress don't happen in a vacuum- they are built upon the innovations, vocabulary and musical building blocks (II/V/I etc.) of great players that precede us. The purpose for studying "the masters" is not to copy them in order to sound like them, but to understand what lead up to their innovations. Having a grasp of not only the lineage of the music and our instrument, but also the common vocabulary of modern jazz can only help one to develop our own sound. The Aebersold stuff is just a tool- it can be helpful, depending how it is used by the individual.

I also think that "gsmonk" is on the certainly on right track thinking about developing his own sound- that is very important and sometimes a lost concept today.

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Bill Ortiz
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oljackboy

Let me second the opinion that you can most easily start with the blues.
Listen to other musicians playing the blues changes. Not just trumpet players, listen to Stevie Ray Vaughn and Ledbelly.

I was on a gig Sunday with a quintet. We had just played "So What" when an older gent requested "Won't You Come Home Bill Bailey".
We launched into it, giving it a Dixieland feel as much as we could. Crowd loved it!

Driving home afterward, I was thinking about the archival nature of Jazz. If we as a group could share the energy and feel of a Dixieland standard, and feel some sense of stewardship as a result, why would that be any different than doing the same thing with a swing tune, a bop tune or a fusion tune? Audience response? Isn't the preservation of The Music part of the deal for a jazz player?

To the OP: Listen to the blues. Get a couple of Cds you like. Whistle or sing along when you're driving in your car. Listen to soloists you like. First learn to sing along with their solos. Then see if you can write parts of the solos that you have learned down on staff paper. Then try playing them on your trumpet. If you keep at it you will start to learn the language of the blues. Hey - if this stuff was easy, everybody would be doing it!

Flathead75

I think you have to be able to play and understand what you are doing before you innovate. I don't think Tom Harrell is a copycat, matter of fact he is one of the most original and melodic players ever, yet he studied the masters and has many of those influences that come out in his playing....yet is is pure Tom Harrell.
This whole innovation reminds me of when I saw Quincy Jones on TV hawking his rap artists. He said rap was a natural extension of the great black music of Parker, Miles, Dizzy and Coltrane. I like to have flipped faster than Miles and Coltrane flipped in their graves. If this is what one calls innovation I can do without! And, I can't wait till they burn that. What is worse is the fact that the quote came from a guy that knows better!
But it is all about the money.

Markie

Hi fathead,
I recently wrote "you have to imitate before you innovate" Sorry for the confusion,my bad.
I was quoting Clark Terry on learning music.
Basically a person imitates someone they admire until they come into their own and offer something new and innovating to the artform.

Flathead75

Markie,
No confusion at all! I was agreeing with your post. I look at it like someone who criticizes Tiger Woods because he plays golf just like all the other greats did and really hasn't innovated at all. Maybe he should play standing on his head so he could bring something new to the table!
Personally it is the classic jazz of Joe Gordon, Clifford Brown, Diz, Miles, and Chet Baker that made me fall in love with the trumpet to begin with.. I haven't become bored hearing great players nail the cord changes and playing their butts off! I guess I am not intellectual enough to demand to hear something so new as to play outside the changes and basically, not swing. A junior high school student can play all day outside! I just seem to appreciate the greats and haven't become cored with them yet. Now, I understand someone that makes their living as a professional wanting to play their own music and bring what they have to offer to the table. I really dig the new stuff Tom Harrell is doing. But, I bought Sonic Trance by Nicholas Payton and was extremely disappointed. I heard him live a few years back and it was like sitting in front of Clifford Brown...then basically he did a rap album?! I don't understand.

Markie

Hi Fatheat,
Thanks for mentioning Joe Gordon. I had never heard of him but just a small search suggests that he was a monster. Is there a CD of him you'd recommend?

veery715

I suspect Markie's suffering from degenerative username referential affliction.

Markie

oops!! thanks veery! That's what I get for typing without my glasses.
My appologies Flathead75.