Jazz Studies Program Terminated at Northwestern!! - Page 2

cornetguy · 05-18-2007, 08:13 PM

It is rather short sighted of NU to dump the Jazz program. I don't think I am a very good jazz player (I have to think about it too much) but the experience playing in the 2nd Jazz band at DePaul was really good for me and helps to develop overall musicianship not just in Jazz. There are a lot of CSO players current and retired, that played jazz at some point in their lives (without thinking too hard, Larry Combs, Herseth, Jacobs) and I am sure we could find the same in just about any orchestra in the U.S. It also helps make you a more versitilie player in whatever direction you go.

trpt2345 · 05-19-2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickD

Mike raises an improtant point. NU has always regarded jazz askance. Guyer has been opposed (again no knock, just pretty well known around here) to jazz. NU has never been known as the Berkely School of Music of Chicago.

However, it is known as a highly respectable institution and a place where a young jazz musician could get a degree with the NU name. Now, that is gone.

However, what REALLY chaps my a.., er, uh, hide, is what NU is saying to jazz musicians by doing this. They are sending a not too subtle message that they consider jazz some sort of bastard art form not worthy of their consideration. Now, NU does have a reputiaton for being "bottom line" oriented. They did kill the organ music department, which, if memory serves, was one of the best in the world when under the leadership of Dr. Dick Enright. So, the notion that jazz wasn't a "money maker" certainly fits their modus operendi. Nevertheless, I think if they really committed themselves to the jazz program they could have built someting amazing and lucrative.

Finally, I have a copy of the letter at home in email form, that the dean wrote on this matter. She was claiming that, after a nationwide search they couldn't find a suitable director of the jazz program. Is she kiddn' me???!!!?? Steve Wiest intereviewed for that job. So did Marvin Stamm. Wiest is going to teach at NTSU now. And Marvin Stamm?? Well, 'nuff said there. I don't by that part of the story for a split second.

On the plus side, schools like Columbia College and Roosevelt University have a powerful opportunity to capitalize on this, and well they should. They have very nice programs there with Rob Parton at Roosevelt and Jon Faddis at Columbia.

Ok, I've got to get ready for class, and if I keep up here, I just going to get more ticked off.

Peace, all!

Nick

Nick, it's all true. Northwestern has revealed themselves to be reactionary. I would never send any of my kids there. If they want to be jerks, their choice. They can keep living in the 1950s and leave the present to others. They had the same problem for a long time in Champaign. After refusing to allow a jazz major in their music program a few years back, they hired some consultants to see what they could do to raise their profile and become more attractive to music students. First thing the consultants said:start a jazz major. So they did a 180 and started it. Eastman, Indiana, New England, Manahattan, places like that have been with the program for a while, and you know what? They're doing very well. It took Wynton to drag Juilliard into the modern world, and there jazz program is good but severely limited. I can't help but think there is a racial component in a lot of this. Talk to Sean Edmonds of the Basie band (a Merit alum who went to Eastman) about that.

Michael McLaughlin

rowuk · 05-19-2007, 11:33 AM

Why is everybody upset? We are in the 21st century. We live in an information society, NU just cut their foot off and the beauty is: EVERYBODY can read all about it - no secrets.
Just as we have a choice to study whatever wherever, businesses - even the business of running a university has freedom of choice.
I do not see this as a "blow" to the jazz world. NU really didn't care anyway. That genre is established and thriving almost everywhere else.
Anybody that wants to get a job as a performer these days needs a rounded education - NU has made a commitment to square. I am sure that they weighed the options and made a "sound" business decision. Time will tell if the decision was right. Let see how many graduates end up getting playing jobs!
I wouldn't send my kids there - too one sided!

beartrumpet74 · 05-21-2007, 02:05 PM

I'm so sorry to hear about this happening, and my thoughts also drift to those students currently in the program. I know they will be able to finish the degree(s) they started, but how good will that be for them considering the fact that the program will not be around after they are done.
I'm sure there are a lot of reasons for ending the program as far as the faculty and dean are concerned, but the fact that the jazz program at NU hasn't been supported by the department is so very troubling. I've seen this before in my travels in academia, and it's actually the reason I left my first school before going to Jamey's program in Louisville. Funny, but many of the powers that were at that school were graduates of NU. I think it's pretty different there now. New dean, new professors, better scene in general.

The only thing the NU dean and faculty have done here is weaken a music department. Maybe NU's program will go away for awhile, but here are some things to keep in mind....

This dean and these faculty members won't be around forever, and new faces over the years may make it better. In addition, this dean and this faculty have all just committed career suicide. Jazz programs are here to stay in the university and rightly so. The incompetent choice to suspend this program will stay with these facutly members forever, and I can assure you that people all over the country in academia are watching this with great interest. This is a very black mark on these professors records, and it WILL stay with them, and there is no amount of typical academic bla bla bla Read: arrogance, that will stop that.
Music schools need jazz programs and all the best schools already know that.
NU has firmly decided with this choice to take themselves out of the top tier of music schools in the land.

My thoughts are with the students... best of luck everyone... get out while the getting is good unless you're too close to the end to stop.
Choose a little better when you look for your next school if you can... although I know this was a bit unexpected....
Best luck
and Shame on the NU facutly and dean.

Matt

Ray Vega · 05-21-2007, 02:25 PM

As an educator, I must admit that this decision by Northwestern saddens me deeply. I'm blessed to be able to work at a college where the administration supports Jazz Studies. This however is the exception, not the rule. In my travels around the US, I find that in higher education, Jazz is treated like the weird/sickly uncle that lives in the basement.....they feed him enough to sustain him, but do nothing to better his situation. When dinner is served on Thanksgiving, he's not invited to sit at the family table.....his name is not even mentioned.
NU should be ashamed of themselves.

TrentAustin · 05-21-2007, 02:41 PM

great post Ray!

Siegtrmpt · 05-21-2007, 06:22 PM

Northwestern, like many other old school music schools, isn't exactly on the cutting edge of music education in this country. I feel sad for those who have invested time and effort trying to make a go of it there. Their efforts will be better served somewhere else.

Tim McGinley · 05-21-2007, 09:37 PM

It's always a shame when any institution has to cut a program. I think we can argue the "catch 22" of the situation. We can argue that there are many reputable institutions that do not offer a jazz major and do very well standing on their own. However, we can also argue that in this day and age the up and coming player is much more marketable with some jazz background. Granted he/she may not have to speak "improvisation" as a first language but being able to communicate the jazz idiom is just one more tool that it is becoming necessary to have. Whether it be understanding the stylistic backgrounds of a "pops" orchestra or being exposed to the intricate harmonies used by so many of our modern composers, Jazz Studies is another way to speak and understand the language. If a school decides never to offer the major, so be it. That is something to consider as we look toward our advanced studies. However, when an institution offers it, I think they should support it by making the investment of hiring full time, dedicated faculty. Perhaps having an adjunct member here and there to fill in some part time positions is warranted but, if you are going to do it....do it right. Of course this is my own very humble opinion but if I am going to dedicate my time, efforts, studies and tuition to a school, I want to be proud of what it yields. I am glad they are letting their current students finish their tracks of study, but I think this will hurt the school in the long run.
Ok- off my soap box. Have a pleasant evening all!

trumpetdiva1 · 05-30-2007, 10:36 PM

I feel that the United States as a society does not support jazz and this decision to terminate such a university jazz program only provides more support to my existing belief. Which jazz program is next? It may not be too far around the corner.

Before I moved to New York City, I used to sit in and share lead trumpet in a jazz orchestra with college students. I taught on the community conservatory faculty. The jazz orchestra had the best repertoire that I would have most likely never come across unless I had played with them, as I was mainly from a classical background. The “working band” folder, as it was called, contained charts that were mostly originals or as performed. We learned to respect the “old school.” It was a valuable learning experience for me and the students. I cannot imagine that ever being taken away from them. The jazz musicians that I respect the most have no college degree. They are like CT, who graduated from the University of Ellingtonia and that is more than enough for me.

Janell

05-18-2007, 08:13 PM	#11
cornetguy Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 788	Re: Jazz Studies Program Terminated at Northwestern!! It is rather short sighted of NU to dump the Jazz program. I don't think I am a very good jazz player (I have to think about it too much) but the experience playing in the 2nd Jazz band at DePaul was really good for me and helps to develop overall musicianship not just in Jazz. There are a lot of CSO players current and retired, that played jazz at some point in their lives (without thinking too hard, Larry Combs, Herseth, Jacobs) and I am sure we could find the same in just about any orchestra in the U.S. It also helps make you a more versitilie player in whatever direction you go. __________________ Per aspera ad astra Last edited by cornetguy; 05-18-2007 at 08:15 PM. Reason: addition

05-19-2007, 11:33 AM	#13
rowuk Moderator Utimate User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 7,205	Re: Jazz Studies Program Terminated at Northwestern!! Why is everybody upset? We are in the 21st century. We live in an information society, NU just cut their foot off and the beauty is: EVERYBODY can read all about it - no secrets. Just as we have a choice to study whatever wherever, businesses - even the business of running a university has freedom of choice. I do not see this as a "blow" to the jazz world. NU really didn't care anyway. That genre is established and thriving almost everywhere else. Anybody that wants to get a job as a performer these days needs a rounded education - NU has made a commitment to square. I am sure that they weighed the options and made a "sound" business decision. Time will tell if the decision was right. Let see how many graduates end up getting playing jobs! I wouldn't send my kids there - too one sided! __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

05-21-2007, 02:05 PM	#14
beartrumpet74 Pianissimo User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 198	Re: Jazz Studies Program Terminated at Northwestern!! I'm so sorry to hear about this happening, and my thoughts also drift to those students currently in the program. I know they will be able to finish the degree(s) they started, but how good will that be for them considering the fact that the program will not be around after they are done. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons for ending the program as far as the faculty and dean are concerned, but the fact that the jazz program at NU hasn't been supported by the department is so very troubling. I've seen this before in my travels in academia, and it's actually the reason I left my first school before going to Jamey's program in Louisville. Funny, but many of the powers that were at that school were graduates of NU. I think it's pretty different there now. New dean, new professors, better scene in general. The only thing the NU dean and faculty have done here is weaken a music department. Maybe NU's program will go away for awhile, but here are some things to keep in mind.... This dean and these faculty members won't be around forever, and new faces over the years may make it better. In addition, this dean and this faculty have all just committed career suicide. Jazz programs are here to stay in the university and rightly so. The incompetent choice to suspend this program will stay with these facutly members forever, and I can assure you that people all over the country in academia are watching this with great interest. This is a very black mark on these professors records, and it WILL stay with them, and there is no amount of typical academic bla bla bla Read: arrogance, that will stop that. Music schools need jazz programs and all the best schools already know that. NU has firmly decided with this choice to take themselves out of the top tier of music schools in the land. My thoughts are with the students... best of luck everyone... get out while the getting is good unless you're too close to the end to stop. Choose a little better when you look for your next school if you can... although I know this was a bit unexpected.... Best luck and Shame on the NU facutly and dean. Matt

05-21-2007, 02:25 PM	#15
Ray Vega Pianissimo User Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Burlington, Vermont Posts: 155	Re: Jazz Studies Program Terminated at Northwestern!! As an educator, I must admit that this decision by Northwestern saddens me deeply. I'm blessed to be able to work at a college where the administration supports Jazz Studies. This however is the exception, not the rule. In my travels around the US, I find that in higher education, Jazz is treated like the weird/sickly uncle that lives in the basement.....they feed him enough to sustain him, but do nothing to better his situation. When dinner is served on Thanksgiving, he's not invited to sit at the family table.....his name is not even mentioned. NU should be ashamed of themselves. __________________ Ray Vega Stomvi Artist Senior Lecturer The University of Vermont www.rayvegamusic.com

05-21-2007, 02:41 PM	#16
TrentAustin Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 2,052	Re: Jazz Studies Program Terminated at Northwestern!! great post Ray! __________________ http://trentaustin.com Consultant, S.E. Shires Trumpets Shires B59BLW "TA" model Bb trumpet Adams Gold Brass Flugelhorn Wedge Mouthpieces PM me for an appointment to try a Shires!

05-21-2007, 06:22 PM	#17
Siegtrmpt Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 554	Re: Jazz Studies Program Terminated at Northwestern!! Northwestern, like many other old school music schools, isn't exactly on the cutting edge of music education in this country. I feel sad for those who have invested time and effort trying to make a go of it there. Their efforts will be better served somewhere else. __________________ Bill S.- NY Bach 6, 38 Mt. Vernon 43 Bach "C" cornet, NY Bach trombone 6vii Monette mouthpieces

05-21-2007, 09:37 PM	#18
Tim McGinley New Friend Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Greater Orlando Area, FL Posts: 34	Re: Jazz Studies Program Terminated at Northwestern!! It's always a shame when any institution has to cut a program. I think we can argue the "catch 22" of the situation. We can argue that there are many reputable institutions that do not offer a jazz major and do very well standing on their own. However, we can also argue that in this day and age the up and coming player is much more marketable with some jazz background. Granted he/she may not have to speak "improvisation" as a first language but being able to communicate the jazz idiom is just one more tool that it is becoming necessary to have. Whether it be understanding the stylistic backgrounds of a "pops" orchestra or being exposed to the intricate harmonies used by so many of our modern composers, Jazz Studies is another way to speak and understand the language. If a school decides never to offer the major, so be it. That is something to consider as we look toward our advanced studies. However, when an institution offers it, I think they should support it by making the investment of hiring full time, dedicated faculty. Perhaps having an adjunct member here and there to fill in some part time positions is warranted but, if you are going to do it....do it right. Of course this is my own very humble opinion but if I am going to dedicate my time, efforts, studies and tuition to a school, I want to be proud of what it yields. I am glad they are letting their current students finish their tracks of study, but I think this will hurt the school in the long run. Ok- off my soap box. Have a pleasant evening all! __________________ Someday I will think of something awe-inspiring to write here. Until that day comes, thank you for reading and, as always, enjoy your endeavors.

05-30-2007, 10:36 PM	#19
trumpetdiva1 Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 143	Re: Jazz Studies Program Terminated at Northwestern!! I feel that the United States as a society does not support jazz and this decision to terminate such a university jazz program only provides more support to my existing belief. Which jazz program is next? It may not be too far around the corner. Before I moved to New York City, I used to sit in and share lead trumpet in a jazz orchestra with college students. I taught on the community conservatory faculty. The jazz orchestra had the best repertoire that I would have most likely never come across unless I had played with them, as I was mainly from a classical background. The “working band” folder, as it was called, contained charts that were mostly originals or as performed. We learned to respect the “old school.” It was a valuable learning experience for me and the students. I cannot imagine that ever being taken away from them. The jazz musicians that I respect the most have no college degree. They are like CT, who graduated from the University of Ellingtonia and that is more than enough for me. Janell __________________ Janell Carter

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