aerotim13

I've heard and read some places that a lot of people (even some professionals?) transcribe/learn by ear solos that other players have done. Does anybody here do this, and does it help you out a lot? It seems counter-intuitive to me to write down the notes somebody played when they were improvising, but I've never tried it.

derekkress

Absolutely! I can't think of better teachers than those who have contributed to the art of improvisation. If you are serious about learning we must train the ear and learn the language. I only write down the solo once I've learned it all by heart or a particular section (licks). The writing down part helps to see where things fall in terms of changes and use of rhythm etc... it gives us a bit of visual to work with. I never learned a standard using a fake book, always by ear and if a vocal standard, the words too. A little off topic but there is an artist here in Quebec his name is Gregory Charles. He has taken his show to New York a couple of times and is now in Paris touring. Gregory is a vocalist, pianist. Part of his show in the second half is to take requests. He and his musicians take the old school approach, calling the starting note, key and how to end the tune. The requests range from standards, to pop , to rap , to disco you name it, he has more than 20,000 songs in his head and his musicians seasoned session players and club date pros fill in all the gaps. One needs well trained ears to pull this off night after night! here is his site Gregory Charles just choose eng for English check the multimedia section, then videos, then black and white (here you will see the musicians doing their thing, the trumpet player's name is Ron Dilauro http://www.rondilauro.com/

__________________
Celebration Bflat by Flip Oakes
Early Yamaha Flugel prototype(Guido Basso)
GR and Stork mouthpieces

dhbailey

Along the lines of Derek's description of Gregory Charles, I have a violinist friend who is a strolling musician and has such an incredible ear and memory that it seems that he can play any song ever written, if he's heard it at least once. I sure envy people with memories like that.

But to get back to the original question, it's great to study what others have done. You don't do it with the idea of playing their solos, but with the idea of being able to study what others (often greater than we'll ever be) have done so that we can develop ideas of our own. Very few ideas are truly original -- what makes them seem original is that we are combining other ideas we've heard somewhere into new combinations, using new pitches to create the contour and a creating something original.

As with any field of learning, doing research into what others have done allows us to digest that knowledge and distill it into new thoughts of our own so that we can build on the work of others.

And transcribing solos helps develop your ear so that you can easily understand what others are doing when they solo and it won't remain some mysterious voodoo incantation that only the specially initiated can participate in. It's all just notes, but knowing which combinations of notes work best in which situations is very helpful. Transcribe enough solos and you'll find yourself thinking "oh yeah, I remember hearing Player X do that same thing way back in the solo I transcribed last month. That makes 10 players who have done essentially the same thing in that situation -- maybe I should start doing it then."

aerotim13

Ok, that all makes a lot of sense. Especially since you compared it to doing research--being an engineering student, I do a lot of research and learn things by studying what others have done.
I'll have to start messing around with this type of thing. I do an awful lot of listening to jazz, but I've never really known how to learn to play it better other than just mess around until something sounds good... which also seems to work well, because that's all my dad ever has done, and he is much like your violinist friend. He can't even read music anymore--he's just got a large list of songs he's learned just by listening to them and he liked them so he wrote them down over the years.

Markie

Yes!
Both learning by ear and writing it down. Just remember, when you play an improve, you're restating the melody but with different notes.

The Dutch Guy

When I want to play something and sheet music isn't available, I write it down myself. I do this by listening to the song, and playing what I heard, and then writing down what I played.

__________________
my trumpets:
Bach Stradivarius Model 198
Yamaha 8335 Xeno

Sofus

A very good approach to improvising is stealing
the good parts of other´s solos.
A solo is often built of scale fragments and less
inspiring things, but among these really good
melodies/licks sometimes can be found.
By stealing them, writing them down and practising
them in all keys a bank of melodies/licks is built up
that one can combine the content of into ones own,
new solos. This is not cheating. All good improvisers
have done this . . .

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity

derekkress

Along these lines I know Randy Brecker keeps his transcription work not too far behind. When he finds himself in an inspirational rut he'll refer back to the transcriptions he's done in the past to find new ideas! Keep your transcriptions and licks for ii V I's, turnarounds etc...

__________________
Celebration Bflat by Flip Oakes
Early Yamaha Flugel prototype(Guido Basso)
GR and Stork mouthpieces

BergeronWannabe

Charlie Parker didn't have a book...he copied other players and made it his own.
I highly suggest doing the same- I am.
have fun,
-Andrew

dhbailey

It's always easy to point to a genius and say "he did it, so you should too." There are very few minds which work like Parker's did, which is why there are so few giants of the sax world which have made such a huge seachange in playing the way he did. Coltrane is another one. Other than that, there have been many outstanding players but very few who affected the entire approach to the music like Parker and Coltrane.

I can't begin to imagine how either of their thought processes ran while soloing -- I know people who can hear a song once and then play it perfectly in any key with little or no effort. I can't, no matter how hard I try. I suspect there are many more musicians like me than like those I know who can pick up a tune by ear and then run with it.

I salute people like Andrew who can do that sort of thing. Meanwhile I trudge along in my own manner, picking up what I can and trying hard to absorb what I hear others play.