S-Money

How do you do these effectively?

I know it takes tons of practice, but what kind of exercises
would you recommend, and are there certain things to keep
in mind when executing a lip trill or a shake? Thanks!

RS

(And as I'm sure you all know, I'm not talking about the kind of "shake" where you rapidly move your right hand back and forth to change the pressure on the lips to simulate a real one)

patdublc

I don't think there that there is a right answer to this question, but there sure are a lot of wrong ones.... LOL. But, here goes - it really does depend on developing a lot of lip flexibility through various execises such as lip slurs on different intervals (3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, octaves) and things like Clarke Technical Studies. I worked on lip slurs for years thinking that they would magically turn into a quality lip trill or shake. It never happened. There was still something missing.

I asked Severinsen at a masters class one time to demonstrate his technique and talk about it a little. He emphasized firm corners and a relaxed center. That's not exactly a break through because it is pretty fundamental to what we do. But, it turned out to be my problem. I just needed to be reminded about it. I was focusing so hard on the lip slurs that I was allowing excessive tension to develop. I started working on the new process and didn't see any immediate results. But, after about a month, it hit like a tidal wave. One day, out of the blue, it sounded like I wanted it to sound. Then, it went away. But, it was enough to know that I was on the right track.

Six months later, players from all of the groups that I play in were asking for help in developing a good quality lip trill. So, here's my advice - instead of beating your head against the wall for 10 years like I did, find a quality instructor to help expedite the process.

pat

wiseone2

Why do you think a "shake" is called a "shake"
Wilmer

MrClean

Uh, that is a "real" shake.

S-Money

I dont know, I've been "assured" by many many people that shakes dont require the motion of the hand. I may have to have a little chat with them.

Not to get away from this, but the more advice or example exercises on how to properly execute or work on a lip trill would be great. I'm sure im not the only one who cant do them (maybe i am? )

RS

rowuk

It is again a question of historical performance practice. The real shake is exactly that and sounds much different than a lip trill.
If you want to get your lip trill up to speed: a tablespoon of Tah-ee-ah-ee-ah-ee-ah three times daily for the next 6 months. Start with top line F# fingered 123 and work upwards 13, 23, 12, 1, 2, 0. At first don't try and trill for whole notes. Think about trumpet voluntary: dotted quarter/eighth. After that works extend the time to dotted half, whole and longer.
Just like babies starting with fluids, then mashed up stuff before getting into the meat - each trumpet playing skill is the same!

ZeuSter

The Arban book , page 44 is a good place to start.
Do these exercises very slowly, and as you improve , gradually
speed up . IMHO, a lip trill is much more preferrable than a shake.
Working on all of the exercises of this nature (lip slurs) in the Arban will improve your embouchure strength and flexibility, and then the lip trills
become easy. especially in the upper register.
Remember to rest often and don't overdo this type of exercise.

rowuk

A real shake in a big band setting is one of the most fantastic sounding "ornaments" in trumpet playing - a lip trill pales in comparison! I am sure Wilmer can shake out the top 10 best examples!

trumpethack

Lip trills and shakes are actually the same thing...

Most people just can't "lip trill" as fast as they can shake (meaning using the right hand). For most people, a lip trill is just a slow shake...

It is however possible to lip trill that fast... I sure can't do it, and have not heard many people who can. But my teacher in undergrad, Jim Ackley who I hope some of you have heard play at the past few ITG's can lip trill like you wouldn't believe. He can literally lip trill faster than I can shake a note... It's dumbfounding... He does those arban's lip trill drills so fast you wouldn't believe me... It sure is a lot easier to just "shake" it... ;)

so yea, just keep doing those arban's lip trills, that's all it is...it just depends on how good you get at it... Jim would say that the faster you want to go, the more efficient you have to be.

Matt

wiseone2

The Basie brass section aint doing lip trills on "Shiny Stockings" or on "The Kid from Red Bank. Basie's brass define what a shake sounds like. Sonic flames.........it doesn't get hotter.
Lip trills and shakes are not the same thing with a different name.
I am using the shake technique I learned as a kid on WSS.
Wilmer