gsmonks

Guys can sure play like fiends these days, but I have to say that my attention tends to wander after about five minutes. There's a sameness to all that technique and precious little originality. I can't say that anything in recent years has really grabbed me.

Things fresh, raw and original really get my mojo going, and it's not that I've changed- it's that jazz seems to have been derailed by pseudo-jazz which, although it appears to be jazz and makes all the right noises, lacks something at its core.

Charlie Parker used to say, "More than two choruses and you're just practicing," but to my ear modern players seem stuck in that channel even before they've blown the first note.

Part of the problem seems to me to be the methodology itself. Sure, practicing and playing a lot of scales and arpeggios enables a player to gush and spew with great authority, but the gushing and spewing in itself, to my ear, smacks of gratuitous self-indulgence.

On the other end of the scale, however, those that economise tend to ring just as false in my ears, and their efforts smack of gimmickry rather than genuine creativity.

There was a lot of talk back in the 60's and 70's about Western Music's having come to its logical conclusion, that its forward progress had ended circa 1963, but that notion is obviously false, because to be true Western Society as a whole would have to be effectively brain-dead.

But the will or the effort does seem to have failed in the wake of much hand-wringing and navel-gazing.

Okay- me go put on body armour now. Say what you must; I can take it.

lakerjazz

By new jazz, do you mean elevator music? I don't care for it either.

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muchan

You don't mean just to say "Jazz is not interesting" as a listener, but sure,
you mean you want to play something meaningfull but not foundig
your own direction yet, no?

I'd recommend to read this book of David Liebman
Chromatic Approach To Jazz Harmony And Melody
David Liebman's Chromatic Approach To Jazz Harmony And Melody

TrentAustin

perhaps you're just not listening to the right musicians.

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kcmt01

Modern jazz? Is there such a thing? I'm still working on my Fats Waller solos! My little group just plays what people want to hear, and in Western Montana nobody wants to hear modern jazz. Period. So we don't play it.

veery715

Hey, gs,

How about giving us some of what you say is missing. Instead of the economy of such a generic complaint, and without spewing, why don't you be a bit more specific. Who's putting out the gratuitous self-indulging technical noodling that you object to, and in contrast, who's economy is absent of creativity and sounds like a gimmick.

Can't be that you've heard everyone, and maybe if you give us some examples we can direct you toward something to float your listening boat. Who defined for you what "modern" jazz was about, back in the day?

I can't help it, but my image of you is one of a hand-wringing navel-gazer. Some incisive constructive comment from you would be very useful if we are to have any chance of dispelling your notion of the state of the art. As the Lone Ranger said, "You go town, Tonto."

Without such at this point, I can only suggest that you consider the changing face of the performance arena that technology has produced, and the eagerness or willingness of audiences to expose themselves to live performance instead of the insular, sterile YouTubed "net"atorium so prevalent in our culture. The state of the art, as you perceive it, may well be heavily influenced by the state of the audience.

veery

Brekelefuw

My issue with a lot of what is put out these days is that there are players with incredible abilities at their instruments, but the solos come off as musical rambling.
Nothing they play is memorable. The solos work great on the tunes, but compared to solos like Lee Morgan on Sidewinder or Blue Trane, they just fall flat.
It seems the ability to tell a story is lost on a lot of modern players. There are still great player, but for me I find that they don't hit me the same way listening to some older musician's solos do.

I don't think it has to do with the style of tune or 'moderness' because there are plenty of great writers and great tunes. One example is Tom Harrell. His a lot of his solos are very memorable. They tell a story, and don't use too many "$100 words" to tell it. They are to the point and every note counts. I don't hear that often enough these days. (and I count myself as one of the people who tend to ramble when they play and not tell a story)

Now I am rambling in words too....

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rettepnoj

Word!!

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vntgbrslvr

I think that while great musicians work and strive for technical prowess, they can become as obsessed with that technical ability as newbies can with playing high notes....Reducing the pleasure in listening....which really is/should be the ultimate goal.

I found myself talking about seeing Wynton Marsallis with a guy that I play with in a small brass group. We both saw a show of his way back when he was finding his fame. I happen to be several years older than this friend, so at the time I was probably in my late teens or early twenties, and he was mid probably mid teens. After talking about seeing him, it was ironic but we both had the same feelings about the show. We felt that we didn't know if weren't musically mature enough to deal with what he was playing, but the concert wasn't enjoyable for either of us. At the time it was all very heavy jazz. Probably groundbreaking....yet too "heavy" for us to enjoy.

I'm not sure if I would feel differently about it now or not, but for me....it still needs to be about playing something that is fun to listen to. Not self indulgent technical studies in public.There is a place for both, but a balance of music presented would have given me an entirely different experience back then. I have a feeling that this was done at a time when Wynton was making his first splash, and that all the groundbreaking style and skill was what gave him the personna he now has. Later music of his is much more musical. Perhaps this was a time he had to go through to prove himself to the jazz affectionado's.....in other words...get his "street cred". He has since done so much more with his music, but there was a time that I probably wouldn't have gone to see him again because of the experience I had, yet he is probably one of the most talented players I have ever witnessed.

I think most really good musicians properly blend the self indulgence of challenging themselves with a deep desire to please others.

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rettepnoj

Well said!! That's the way I see Wynton too! He is a hell of a trumpet player, and I really enjoy his trumpet playing! But as jazz, NO!!!!

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