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Jazz / Commercial Discuss New York Scene - Dick Cavatt Show Trpt Section in the General forums; Hello, As is usual, I forgot to mention 4 more fine NY players who were part of the magical " ...
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    New York Scene - Dick Cavatt Show Trpt Section

    Hello,

    As is usual, I forgot to mention 4 more fine NY players who were part of the magical " New York " Scene and played in the Dick Cavatt Show orchestra trumpet section. I think they also deserve the credit for what was happening in the " East " at the time.

    They are Victor Paz, Joe Wilder, Ray Crisara and Al Stewart.

    Also, I did not mention the name Nat Prager , ( 2nd trumpet NY Phil , WM. Vacchiano, principal under Toscanini) who is considered to be in the same category as Wm. Vacchiano, as far as legendary teachers and performers go.

    I apologize to all for the omission.

    Doc trivia:

    Doc's first job in New York as a NBC staff musician was with
    " The Kate Smith Show "

    Bernie Glow trivia:

    Bernie Glow was a student of world re-owned teacher Max Schlosberg at age 12.

    Note to younger players: ( not strictly by age, but years on the horn )

    By knowing the history of the instrument and it’s “greats “, I believe is an important factor in a trumpet players development.

    As you mature, and start to want to make strides in your playing , knowing who to listen to, who to emulate, how to play different styles (swing, Dixieland, lead, section, solo, vaudeville, Vegas, rock, Broadway, small band, big band, jazz, scream,etc ) can only help you in your development.

    Whether you playing in a local community band , Epcot Center , Broadway or leading the Tonight Show band, you will be much more comfortable playing what ever is thrown in from of you if you understand what it should sound like and the more you be valued as a player.

    Playing a “ Hi C “ is fantastic, but learning what to do with it , once you own it, separates the “men from the boys” when the downbeat commeth.
    Ladies also. ( sorry about the sermon, just came out )

    Larry

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    New York Scene - Dick Cavatt Show Trpt Section

    Larry,
    Didn't my buddy Danny Stiles play lead on the Merv Griffin show for awhile?

    Butch
    P.S. Larry...just thought of another player that I worked with quite a bit when playing shows at the hotels in the Catskill Mt. resorts...Carl Poole. Great all-around player! I don't think I ever heard him miss a note! I believe at the time he had just finished a steady gig with Doc on the NY Tonight Show band. This was around 1968-69. Are you familiar with him?
    Kanstul Mariachi Premier
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    Hi CB,

    Your right Danny Stiles was a fantastic NY studio player and did play lead trumpet on the Merv Griffin Show when it was based in New York. He and Bill Watrous were very good friends and actually started Bill's Big Band "Wild Life Refuge " which put out and album in 1972 with Danny playing lead trumpet. This band had the quintessential " New York " sound, but I must say, all the New York based Big Bands really played with alot ore " Swing" and " Drive " then their counter-parts in the west.

    Danny also played with Gil Evans, Woody Herman, Bette Midler, Jimmy Smith and a host of other top notch performers.

    Sadly, he died in 1979 and he is missed and because of his early death, he is sometimes forgotten for his contributions to the trumpet community. I will see Bill Watrous this after noon and get more info on Danny. Plus, I'll have more to write later today.

    Other players I've overlooked: Joe Newman, Johnny Coles, Louis Mucci, Roger Murtha, Allen Smith, Al Forte, Hal Posey, and Nick Travis (re-located to LA)

    Danny Stiles
    Bach 43 lt - Giard. 7M

    Larry

    PS: If you haven’t read Noel’s post ( lonelyangel ) in the EC/WC topic, please treat yourself to some excellent writing and information on the commercials players in England. Noel is a fantastic player, plus he has a added talent of having great communicative skill's in his writing.

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    Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:53 pm** *Post subject:
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi CB,

    Your right Danny Stiles was a fantastic NY studio player and did play lead trumpet on the Merv Griffin Show when it was based in New York. He and Bill Watrous were very good friends and actually started Bill's Big Band "Wild Life Refuge " which put out and album in 1972 with Danny playing lead trumpet. This band had the quintessential " New York " sound, but I must say, all the New York based Big Bands really played with alot ore " Swing" and " Drive " then their counter-parts in the west.

    Danny also played with Gil Evans, Woody Herman, Bette Midler, Jimmy Smith and a host of other top notch performers.

    Sadly, he died in 1979 and he is missed and because of his early death, he is sometimes forgotten for his contributions to the trumpet community. I will see Bill Watrous this after noon and get more info on Danny. Plus, I'll have more to write later today.

    Danny died much later,
    Maybe you are thinking of Mike Lawerence.
    Wilmer

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    New York Scene - Dick Cavatt Show Trpt Section

    Larry,
    Like Wilmer said Danny had to have died quite a bit after 1979. I worked with his big band in 78-79 which he put together on the spur of the moment for gigs here and there. I also did a couple of other big bands with him in Ct. and a few shows at the Club Bonet in Jersey which had to have been in at least '80-81. Another point...Danny ALWAYS played a Bach 72* with a Giardinelli 7M (not a 43*). I know because I used to try to get him to stay after gigs and talk equipment with me. Danny felt that the 37 & 43 bells were too tight. He really wasn't a gearhead at all...I was! He always told be to go get a 72*...make sure it was lacquered, not plated...pick one comfortable piece and give the others away...go practice...and everything will take care of itself!!! Sounded easy BUT, unfortuneately, that philosophy never seemed to work for me!

    Butch
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    Wilmer,

    Thank you again for keeping things straight. You are right, I was thinking of Mike Lawrence , who tragically died too soon.

    I have brought up the question to Bill Watrous before about Danny , but it still seems to be a touchy subject with him, I know they were very close

    As you know, Bill made the re-locate with Merv to LA and Danny decided not too , plus his early death I believe still has a hold on Bill.

    Wilmer , can you discuss Charlie Shavers with us.

    He is another trumpet player , from the NY scene that doesn’t seem to have gotten his " due " in trumpet achievements.

    For all else who don’t know Charlie's work check out:

    http://www.trumpetstuff.com/Home.html - Click on Charlie Shaver's and watch him in 2 clips. One of a recreation of his original solo in the 40's classic " We'll get it " and another playing a “Stratospheric " solo on another tune. It well worth the time.

    Was Charlie a session player that also had a solo career or a jazz player that worked the studio's like say Clark Terry. Joe Newman or Johnny Coles?

    Wilmer, thank you for all your contributions to the music world.
    I going to listen to another favorite CD of mine that has Dave and John Gale , Johnny Frosk and the incredible Wilmer Wise on it , recorded in 1987 - " Cleo Lane sings Sondheim " - everyone should have this one in their collection.

    Thank you again ,Wilmer

    Charlie Shavers
    Besson ML ( , I have also seen a Selmer credited to Mr. Shavers ) , Jet Tone “ Charlie Shavers” model copied from an Al Cass and Charlie Allen mouthpieces he used previously.

    Chetbaker,

    You are correct Danny playing a Bach 72 later in his career, but I found a article on Danny from early in his career in one of my brass journal's that listed a Bach 43. Next time, I'll just list both becasue I couldn't remember if it was a Bach 43 or 72 when I met him while I was on the road early in the '76 and heard him in New York subbing on Thad/Mel's big band playing at the Village Vanguard.

    Again, thank you both for keeping the info in the posts as straight as possible.

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    New York Scene - Dick Cavatt Show Trpt Section

    Larry,
    I thank you for your latest posts. For me, they have been VERY informative...but most of all brought back some good times and memories that I may have put on the back burner!

    Butch
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    Re: New York Scene - Danny Stiles

    Some of you a while back were writing in about Danny Stiles. I studied trumpet with him privately in Nyack, NY from about 1973-75 and also had the opportunity to play with him a few times and have many recollections. He lived there with his spouse and two sons, I believe. A number of random recollections, for posterity:

    He also loved to double on flugelhorn.

    He was indeed ultra-close to Bill Watrous; told me many times he considered him his very best friend. They had a band together and did some albums in the '70's; 'Spain' was sort of their signature number. It was pretty much a killer rehearsal band with top NY studio guys of the day. Their kinda 'gag' tune for a fun romp was a breakneck version of 'The Flintstones' theme. He and Watrous together were ALWAYS in perfect synchronicity and to see them trade off on various types of jazz numbers was staggering in terms of their combined virtuosity. He was also fond of his recording of 'It Had to Be You.'

    His absolute signature lick was a repetitive, soaring kind of 'chromatic' cascade up into the stratosphere. Anyone who heard him play will never forget it; sometimes played it to a fault, almost like when Freddie Hubbard would resort to that 'dee-oo-wee!' thing that seemed a bit unfortunate at times!.

    He was especially proud of having gone on the road once with Billie Holiday when he was quite young.

    He was from Indiana, I think it was Evanston or Elkhart, not sure. He told me he had two choices out of high school-- professional trumpet or professional baseball and he for whatever reason chose the former. He regretted it at times, he said, and was really proud of how good a ballplayer he apparently was.

    He adored his children.

    He had a great sense of humor, but was also very competitive and aggressive and had NO patience for mediocrity.

    He referred to Chet Baker as perhaps his greatest influence, followed by Dizzy. He admired Harry James, I think he once said.

    He battled over the years with alcohol-- that was his demon.

    He was remarkable in studio work; he had deadly, consistent precision and I had the opportunity to sit next to him during '70's sessions at Media Sound on W. 57th Street as well as other recording venues and I do not honestly remember him ever missing a note. His tone was sort of a radiant, slippery-smooth and bright one; that was really his differentiating characteristic vs. the more robust, sonorous timbre of his studio trumpet contemporaries of the day, which was quite a 'renaissance' of sorts-- he was a sharp contrast to the glorious tonality of Bernie Glow, Murray Karpilovsky, Paulie Cohen, Mel Davis and so on. He was a confident improvisor in any setting or number; nothing phased him one bit.

    He relocated I think to Miami at one point, likely in the '80s; from there I heard things really went for the worse.

    In all, Danny was an immensely gifted but moody and brooding personage, mysterious, complex and on top of it all, a highly-driven, high-powered perfectionist.

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    Re: New York Scene - Dick Cavatt Show Trpt Section

    Just a few little points:

    -Danny Stiles and Watrous put out TWO albums with their big band (Manhattan Wildlife Refuge). I think one was epynomous (sp?) and the other was called (if I remember correctly) 'The Tiger of San Pedro'. I also remember seeing a quintet album back in the '70s...maybe on Famous Door? Stiles was a killer lead player...

    -I had seen Victor Paz on video over the years, I remember he was playing lead on a Bette Midler show during the '70s that was on HBO or something. I finally got to see him live in the early '90s with Mario Bauza's band. !!!!!! He was awesome and the band just killed! The section included Paz, Chocolate Armenteros, and Stanton Davis.....

    bigtiny

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    Re: New York Scene - Dick Cavatt Show Trpt Section

    The small-group LP put out by Danny Stiles & Watrous WAS on Famous Door, and was rather erroneously titled "The Danny Stiles 5" - when actually, Bill obviously was co-leader of the quintet with Danny. The highlight, for me anyhow, was their small-group version of the Stiles feature, on the "Manhattan Wildlife Refuge" LP, called "Dirty Dan".
    I loved Danny's spot-on intonation, and crystal-clear tone, while soloing OR playing lead in a big band.

    I've since seen Bill in concert, in Sarasota, at their yearly jazz festival, in the '90s. He's always been an incredibly talented technical player, but with none of the growlin' & wailin' of the likes of Slide Hampton, J.J. Johnson, Al Grey, etc. Still, I'd drive 100 miles just to hear him playing anything, anywhere - he's absolutely that talented!

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