Swing Era or Modern Era?

Solar Bell · 06-10-2008, 05:24 PM

Big band era or modern era
Which type of big band music do you prefer?
The big bands/swing bands of the 30s & 40’s, or the new big bands working now.
I prefer the 6 brass of the old bands like Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, Harry James, Count Basie, etc. used in the swing era.
I liked all the back and forth interplay between the sections.
I prefer the drummers that kept thing together while driving the band without being overpowering.
The bass that was more felt than heard.
I really liked the MELODIC solos that the players played then, as opposed to some guys now that play every note on the horn. The old bands had melodies and solos that told a story.

The newer big bands, in my opinion just don’t do that. The screaming is WAY overdone and the solos just seem to be “Chromatic searching” if you know what I mean.
There is a wall of sound that comes at you in the modern big bands that to me isn’t always the way I like to hear things.

These are just my thoughts, what are yours?

eisprl · 06-10-2008, 06:19 PM

I have to agree with you in terms of instrumentation, the rhythm section and the melodic solos but I gotta say I LOVE the newer arrangements. Gordon Goodwin's two Albums, "XXL" and "The Phat Pack" have some fantastic writing in them. And talk about the back and forth interplay between the sections! great stuff. I love the newer tunes with the more modern sound but the older stuff is good too!

jmtrumpet · 06-10-2008, 06:27 PM

While I love the bands of Basie, Thad Jones, Mel Lewis, Ellington, etc., I like to listen to modern big bands just as much, ala Maria Schneider, Jim Cifelli's Nonet, Darcy James Argue, Vanguard Jazz Orchestra, etc. I think I sometimes gravitate toward modern ensembles because for me it seems to represent more fully where the music has been, and where it's going. The beautiful thing about music is we all relate to something different; makes it exciting to see what different people bring to the table!

Vulgano Brother · 06-10-2008, 10:53 PM

Welcome to TM, jmtrumpet!

I'm partial to the Renaissance bands. No saxophones.

TrentAustin · 06-11-2008, 12:12 AM

Why not both? There are times tonight on my gig where I played Avant-garde and the next tune was I cant' Get Started.

I love all jazz... and love practicing it as well as opening myself to all styles.

-t

screamingmorris · 06-11-2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar Bell

...the solos just seem to be “Chromatic searching” if you know what I mean...

If I am interpreting your complaint correctly, that has long been my complaint about certain types of jazz.

I'd rather hear Maynard Ferguson play some pop tune that purists complain is not true jazz than listen to some types of jazz in which the soloists just seem to be playing ultra-fast chromatic scales.
Playing ultra-fast chromatic scales is indeed technically impressive, but it is not music to my ears.
(I assume that what I am complaining about is "be bop"?)

Tommy Dorsey playing "Getting Sentimental Over You".
Glenn Miller playing "In the Mood".
Bunny Berrigan playing "I Can't Get Started".
*That* is *great* music.

- Morris

MJ · 06-11-2008, 01:41 AM

I voted swing.

TrentAustin · 06-11-2008, 01:57 PM

you know I should really read the title of posts... I'm an idiot. You're talking 'bout big bands.

I love most big bands but my three favs are:

1. Bob Brookmeyer's bands. What an orchestrator!
2. Maria Schneider. wow
3. Thad/Mel.

I could go without Gordon Goodwin's stuff. It's highly overwritten IMO. The music doesn't breathe.

-t

wilcox96 · 06-11-2008, 02:36 PM

I don't so much prefer one "style" over the other - per se (rather enjoy all...as Trent suggested), as much as I typically don't like the recorded "sound" of the newest stuff out there. The older things...even from the 70's and backwards...had a much more raw, vibrant sound to it. Much of what I've heard today sounds almost sterile...perfect...and in effect, is almost lifeless..or perhaps robotic.

Maybe it's in the recording techniques used. Maybe I just like the way some engineers record/master over others. One of the relatively newer things I've touted is Michel Camilo's "One More Once" big band cd. Maybe the way's it's recorded is one of the reasons I suppose I like it. (though, great emotional playing - superb arrangements surely help!) Nothing sterile about "that" recording. Especially the tune, "Not Yet". Damn, that's ballsy.

The great older tunes that Chuck mentions will always be "great". Good is good...forever. I really enjoy turning on my kids - little by little - to some of the older stuff. It is very cool to see them appreciate great music, no matter the era. I came home one day to see my son's computer had - as the wallpaper - a pic of Buddy Rich.

There may be hope yet, boys and girls. ha.

clousemiester · 06-11-2008, 05:37 PM

As Trent had in his first post "why not both"
It's too tough to choose.
It's all good!
Even the saxaphones!

View Poll Results: Big Bands--Swing Era or Modern Era?
Swing Era	19	73.08%
Modern Big Bands	7	26.92%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

06-10-2008, 05:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Solar Bell Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 4,019	Swing Era or Modern Era? Big band era or modern era Which type of big band music do you prefer? The big bands/swing bands of the 30s & 40’s, or the new big bands working now. I prefer the 6 brass of the old bands like Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, Harry James, Count Basie, etc. used in the swing era. I liked all the back and forth interplay between the sections. I prefer the drummers that kept thing together while driving the band without being overpowering. The bass that was more felt than heard. I really liked the MELODIC solos that the players played then, as opposed to some guys now that play every note on the horn. The old bands had melodies and solos that told a story. The newer big bands, in my opinion just don’t do that. The screaming is WAY overdone and the solos just seem to be “Chromatic searching” if you know what I mean. There is a wall of sound that comes at you in the modern big bands that to me isn’t always the way I like to hear things. These are just my thoughts, what are yours? __________________ Chuck Willard *The Willard of Oz* "Don't be afraid to see what you see." Ronald Reagan

06-10-2008, 06:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
eisprl Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Halifax, NS CANADA Posts: 506	Re: Swing Era or Modern Era? I have to agree with you in terms of instrumentation, the rhythm section and the melodic solos but I gotta say I LOVE the newer arrangements. Gordon Goodwin's two Albums, "XXL" and "The Phat Pack" have some fantastic writing in them. And talk about the back and forth interplay between the sections! great stuff. I love the newer tunes with the more modern sound but the older stuff is good too! __________________ Eric Sproul Practice is like filling a leaky bucket Bb: Yamaha Xeno 8335 C: Bach Stadivarious 239L and 25A leadpipe (Owned by Eric Sholtz) Flugel: Yamaha Bobby Shew 6310Z Mouthpieces: GR tech www.stadband.ca

06-10-2008, 06:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
jmtrumpet New Friend Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: WV Posts: 5	Re: Swing Era or Modern Era? While I love the bands of Basie, Thad Jones, Mel Lewis, Ellington, etc., I like to listen to modern big bands just as much, ala Maria Schneider, Jim Cifelli's Nonet, Darcy James Argue, Vanguard Jazz Orchestra, etc. I think I sometimes gravitate toward modern ensembles because for me it seems to represent more fully where the music has been, and where it's going. The beautiful thing about music is we all relate to something different; makes it exciting to see what different people bring to the table!

06-10-2008, 10:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
Vulgano Brother Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Home Posts: 3,265	Re: Swing Era or Modern Era? Welcome to TM, jmtrumpet! I'm partial to the Renaissance bands. No saxophones. __________________ "A tool good enough to be so used and not too good" C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength www.letsbuildhope.org

06-11-2008, 12:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
TrentAustin Moderator Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,600	Re: Swing Era or Modern Era? Why not both? There are times tonight on my gig where I played Avant-garde and the next tune was I cant' Get Started. I love all jazz... and love practicing it as well as opening myself to all styles. -t __________________ Trent Austin lurking around. If you want to chat PM me. http://www.trentaustin.com http://www.onlinejazzimprovisation.com

06-11-2008, 01:41 AM	#7 (permalink)
MJ Forte User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naptown Posts: 1,937	Re: Swing Era or Modern Era? I voted swing. __________________

06-11-2008, 01:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
TrentAustin Moderator Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,600	Re: Swing Era or Modern Era? you know I should really read the title of posts... I'm an idiot. You're talking 'bout big bands. I love most big bands but my three favs are: 1. Bob Brookmeyer's bands. What an orchestrator! 2. Maria Schneider. wow 3. Thad/Mel. I could go without Gordon Goodwin's stuff. It's highly overwritten IMO. The music doesn't breathe. -t __________________ Trent Austin lurking around. If you want to chat PM me. http://www.trentaustin.com http://www.onlinejazzimprovisation.com Last edited by TrentAustin; 06-11-2008 at 02:01 PM.

06-11-2008, 02:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
wilcox96 Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: charlotte nc Posts: 506	Re: Swing Era or Modern Era? I don't so much prefer one "style" over the other - per se (rather enjoy all...as Trent suggested), as much as I typically don't like the recorded "sound" of the newest stuff out there. The older things...even from the 70's and backwards...had a much more raw, vibrant sound to it. Much of what I've heard today sounds almost sterile...perfect...and in effect, is almost lifeless..or perhaps robotic. Maybe it's in the recording techniques used. Maybe I just like the way some engineers record/master over others. One of the relatively newer things I've touted is Michel Camilo's "One More Once" big band cd. Maybe the way's it's recorded is one of the reasons I suppose I like it. (though, great emotional playing - superb arrangements surely help!) Nothing sterile about "that" recording. Especially the tune, "Not Yet". Damn, that's ballsy. The great older tunes that Chuck mentions will always be "great". Good is good...forever. I really enjoy turning on my kids - little by little - to some of the older stuff. It is very cool to see them appreciate great music, no matter the era. I came home one day to see my son's computer had - as the wallpaper - a pic of Buddy Rich. There may be hope yet, boys and girls. ha. __________________ Brad Wilcox NYTC Endorsing Artist Stage 1 California Light w/Rose Brass Bell Bach Strad Flugelhorn GR Mouthpieces http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com...rad-wilcox.htm http://trumpetland.ning.com/profile/BradWilcox Last edited by wilcox96; 06-11-2008 at 02:38 PM.

06-11-2008, 05:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
clousemiester Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Boca Raton Posts: 92	Re: Swing Era or Modern Era? As Trent had in his first post "why not both" It's too tough to choose. It's all good! Even the saxaphones! __________________

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