bluespiderweb

Hey folks,

I've only been playing a short time now (less than a month) and I'm an old guy who hasn't played a horn in ages (started on Sousaphone). I picked up two cornets on Ebay-an Olds Ambassador and a Holton C603 shepherd's crook, and have been trying different mouthpieces and techniques, and still can't get decent sounding low notes on them-except once in a while I get a passable one, but still not pretty to listen to for sure! I have thin lips, and find the higher notes more accessable most times than the lows-with the mid range the best and easiest. I'm fairly sure that it's a matter of developing the right emboucure for the notes (as I have done with flute), but I'm still not convinced that low notes on a cornet can sound great!

Any suggestions for great lows? Or should I go to the flugel to get the nice low tones? Is that much easier to get the lows on flugel than cornet, or am I just being impatient? I've gotten some nice tones throughout the scale on cornet (except the lowest notes), but it's after I've warmed up and have been playing a bit.

Or should I just go to trumpet?!!

Vulgano Brother

Hi Barry!

It is not so much a matter of type of instrument--some will happily bark out low notes, and some otherwise fine horns won't. If you have a chance let another player with good low chops try them out. If it isn't the instrument, we can train our lips to play the low notes by doing the following:

Play chromatically from middle c down to low f#, with a crescendo to forte and beyond--if you can get some windows to rattle, great! Then tongue some of those low notes--try to sound like a trombone. The lower register should open up in a relatively short time.

Have fun!

Cornet1

Practice long sustained notes starting at ppp rising to 'loud' without letting the sound fracture, then back to ppp,....time your endurance and steadily extend daily/weekly,....after about two weeks sound quality will improve dramatically.

Get a Denis Wick 4 mpc and use for at least 6 months before changing.

Be advised that part of the problem is almost certainly in the particular cornet that you are using. A common feature of American/foreign made cornets is a 'rough' lower end, and this is why they are not used here by the more serious brass bands.

bluespiderweb

Thanks for the tips about how to work on the low notes, and also about some cornets having a harder time with the lows.

Even if my cornets aren't great about playing them, I'm sure I can at least improve on what I've been getting so far with some work, as suggested.

I would like to try a Wick mp-lots of nice things said about them here.

Thanks for the ideas!

bagmangood

Long tones are golden
if you practice playing down there with long tones and/or clarke exercises you'll get a much better and easier sound down low. I wouldn't worry about the instrument too much, its might be just a matter of getting used to it

Bloomin Untidy Musician

My feeling is that your lack of playing experience is to blame and not the instrument/mouthpiece. Patience and disciplined practice provides the answer to most issues in playing. Yes sometimes a mouthpiece, or an instrument can be causing a problem, but at your early developmental stage you should be playing on a bog standard 7c size mouthpiece to give your muscles a chance to develop right across the register without using too much mouthpiece pressure. I find that beginner students nearly always find one of the starting harmonics (C or G) easy and one difficult. It sounds as though you might fall into this category.
By the way there is absolutely no problems with the bottom register of the cornet and low notes can sound fantastic. I can knock out pedale Bs and As with a trombone like sound. I do play on what might be termed as "a bucket" but i could still easily knock out a powerful pedale C on a smaller mpiece.
To answer your question, i think you are being a little impatient. If you are producing a nice sound from your instrument across other parts of the register, i would imagine that it is not wholly the instrument's fault. To be on the safe side, get another cornet player to have a blow on it just incase there are any holes! This could affect your sound significantly. Also check the water tap corks. If these are worn and the seal is broken this could be your problem.

bigtiny

I agree that this is probably due more to you being a new player than anything else. Your experience being able to play a bit in 'the middle' is common, the high and low extremes of the horn are the hardest to get under control...both require that the fundamentals of playing be well practiced:

- the breath support and flow must be working
- you must relax (which you cannot do if the breath is not right)
- you must develop strength and flexibility in the embochure (long tones, lip slurs, etc.)


bigtiny

rowuk

Barry,
If we look at the mechanics of low notes, the following needs to happen:
The lips need to be able to vibrate freely in the mouthpiece. Any excessive pressure will clamp them down, destroying the lower register (but helping to cheat in the upper register!).
We need a steady flow of air capable of keeping the lips vibrating and an embouchure well enough developed to allow that air to be turned into sound (a weak embouchure allows the air to pass between the lips without causing much vibration).

While I agree with everything that has been said up until now, I suspect that it is your breathing and not the chops that needs the most attention! Do a search on "circle of breath". That is generally my cure for whatever ails a trumpet player! I see more breathing problems than any other single fault - especially where playing is a hobby. Fixing your breathing is so easy and offers so many benefits, I do not understand why it is ignored so much! Teachers that do not stress correct body use and breathing are doing their students a GREAT disservice!

bluespiderweb

Thank you, Bloomin'! I'm not really being impatient (though those were my words). I'm was more cuirious than anything about the elusive low notes that just sounded terrible to me. Yes, my lack of experience on the instrument is very suspect at this point-much more than any fault of the horn!

I try to play as relaxed as I can to produce a note, not using much pressure at all, but I have no teacher, so I am going at it blindfolded, and finding my own way-as is usual for me. So, all your suggestions are valued, and thanks to all for the input.

Good suggestion too, about the water key corks-one of mine is suspect, but the other and both on my second cornet are fine, I believe. Nice to know this could be a weak link though.

bluespiderweb

Bagman, and Bigtiny, thanks also for your help. It's nice to get differing opinions that can all be of use for a new guy like me!

And Rowuk, thanks for the detailed explanation of getting the low notes related to the mouthpiece mechanics. Some things like that (which are taken for granted by experienced players) are exactly what I need to know in the long climb to the top-well, as long as I can make it to the switchbacks!

I do know about breath support from the flute-but I will keep it in mind as I play on the cornet too! Thanks again for all of your support, guys!

Also, I'm happy to hear that the cornet can be played with great results on the bottom end! That was a concern I had after not getting the nice bottom tones.