misty.sj

OK, during the time I was playing both trumpet AND horn, I'd sometimes put my Schilke 29 horn mpc into my trumpet and play. There was no trouble playing that I noticed, and it seemed to mellow out the sound a bit. I couldn't do it the other way around of course, because the receiver on the horn was smaller than the trumpet mpc shank. I was playing a standard Bach 7C.

The cup on the trumpet mouthpiece was much wider and more 'cup-like' than any horn mouthpieces I ever used (I also played on a Yamaha one but don't remember the make).

So, my question is -- why are horn and trumpet mouthpieces so radically different? Is a horn mouthpiece more similar to a flugelhorn one? Are there any conceivable reasons why a trumpeter would want a horn mouthpiece, or vice versa? Is any of the mouthpiece difference due to the posture differences of playing? The trumpet is played a lot more perpendicular to the face than the horn.

rowuk

Misty,
the reason has a lot to do with the basic characteristics of each instrument. The trumpet is traditionally a cylindrical bore instrument with a bell on the end. Early trumpets had a greater proportion of straight tubing than modern instruments. The expectation from a trumpet is a brilliant sound. This and the need to keep the upper octave in tune, creates the need for a cup shaped mouthpiece. The wide rim is for support to increase endurance.

The horn is primarily conical in bore and that changes the intonation appreciably. The expected sound from a horn is darker with less pronounced overtones. That is accomplished with a deep vee shaped cup. The small rim is based on the tradition of not putting the mouthpiece across both lips, rather pressing the mouthpiece into the lower lip.

Flugelhorns have been traditionally played with both types of cups. Several types of german flugelhorns even have shanks for trumpet mouthpieces.

I personally see no reason to fight with hundreds of years of experience. The normal types of mouthpieces work well in their respective instruments.

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misty.sj

Thanks for your great explanation. I was in no way contemplating using a horn mouthpiece on a trumpet, I was just wondering why they are so very different. Difference in bore style and musical expectation makes sense to me!

Vulgano Brother

The Farkas Model horn mouthpiece had a bit of a cup to it. In his book The Art of Horn Playing he examined the inner contours of several different horn mouthpieces, and remarked, if an aging memory still serves me, that the cupped mouthpieces allowed a sharper attack (current thought amongst trumpeters, too).

The horn is an odd beast, the length of an f tuba but a bore size (through the valve section) of a normal large bore trumpet. Compared to a tuba or even trombone mouthpiece the horn mouthpiece relatively small, equal to a big trumpet mouthpiece. Since mouthpiece volume plays a role in the characteristics of the complete instrument, it is interesting to note that the horn mouthpiece might be considered just one big throat, rather than a V or C or in-between cup. Buzzing the mouthpieces without the instrument gives a whole different "feel" of resistance.

Odd beast, the horn, but I have never heard anyone complain about the way hornists kiss.

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rowuk

But I have heard complaints about where they put their right hand........

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misty.sj

Hah, you shouldnt go there, rowuk!

Thanks for all the discussion about the horn mouthpiece. I did read Farkas' book of course (yawn) but it's been too long to remember the specifics. Except that he had quite an ugly mug to be picking apart his embouchure the whole time. I used a Farkas model horn but not the mouthpiece. The Schilke mouthpiece had a very gentle cup, and actually seemed smaller than the standard trumpet mouthpieces. I'm sure it was deeper, but narrower too.

The most surprising thing to remember right now is how low the horn plays compared to the trumpet. Those notes above the ledger feel high on the horn too, but I need some work to get back up there on the trumpet.

rowuk

I don't know what you are talking about..........

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

misty.sj

Innocense is not a look that becomes you, I think. :)