roel

Recently I bought a Kelly 7C Lexan mouthpiece. Participating a clinic by Bobby Shew made me do it. He currently plays a Kelly 3C.

The sound is amazing for small group Jazz: warm, dark and fuzzy, but when playing loud, the piece has an incredible projection. I used to play a Kanstul Monette B5 and I'm really amazed. $19 for such a great mouthpiece!

Anyone else tried these plastic pieces? I'm thinking of buying the Kelly screamer piece too. Any experiences?

Manny Laureano

Wait...

A plastic mouthpiece has better projection than a metal mouthpiece? You can hear this mouthpiece from a distance better than a comparable brass mouthpiece? How exactly do you know this since you can't be two places at once? Did you have a teacher or professional listening to each mouthpiece?

Forgive all the questions... I was very curious when I read your post to know how you made that determination as it is counterintuitive to what one would normally assume.

ML

Martin Williams

plastic louder than brass?

In a word, yes!

At least in the saxophone and clarinet world, there is been a studied and measured difference in the projection between nice lexan/plastic mouthpieces and metal mouthpieces(brass, sterling, stainless steel, silverite, gold/silverplate, etc)

I dont see why this would not hold up in the brass instrument world. Technically, the material a mouthpiece is made of makes little to no difference in the sound it produces, as compared to the shape of the cup/rim/bite, etc.

This would make for an intresting study actually

Manny Laureano

The reason I don't believe it is because I was once given a kelly mouthpiece as a joke. Now, I don't know the entire line of their mouthpieces. I don't know how dense they get, I'll admit ignorance to that. However, the one I received was a flimsy pink thing that in no way would help produce the mass of sound that a comparable metal one would.

They sound loud and nasal close up but that's usually the give away. The mouthpiece horn combinations that sound loudest close up are rarely, if ever, the same ones that sound fuller, richer, more present (that is, more low overtones) way out in front. My way of being "two places at once" is by listening to the reverb in Orchestra hall, Minneapolis. It's the best way, other than having a trusted pair of ears in the hall itself, to gauge projection.

The clarinet and sax mouthpieces I've seen are made, generally, of a much harder plastic than the Kelly mouthpieces I've held.

I don't mean to single out Kelly for bashing. I'm only bashing the notion that a comparable plastic mouthpiece is going to have better sonic qualities than a brass one from a distance. I'm not someone who uses a microphone for a living, so, the idea of projection in a good acoustic environment is important to me.

Thanks, Martin.

ML

TrpRobster

I played some gigs with Roger Ingram recently and he's playing a prototype plastic mouthpiece that's similar to his Marc...Model. I thought he was joking at first. After he played the loudest High A and Double C I've ever heard I knew this was no joke. I'm ordering a whole set!

Manny Laureano

...from a distance, from a distance...

By the way, I have no doubt that a lighter weight piece would aid in playing in the upper register but the big question (again) is will it carry in a non amplified, acoustic setting as well as a metal one?

Tell you what I'll do... at some point today I'll playtest the plastic piece on my picc and post my impressions. I have to find it first.

ML

ecarroll

Manny,

Ren Schilke experimented with plastics back in the late 60s. He even had one of his designs (a red B6 -- horrifying to me then but I wish I had it today!) cast entitely of plastic and tried manufacturing a few mouthpieces of the same. The experiment was abandoned when it was determined that the horn (and mouthpieces to some extent) projected sound no farther than the front of the stage.

Schilke remained convinced, however, that a non-metal rim was worthwhile (comfort? I doubt that he was planning to march in a parade), and his own personal mouthpiece had a delron screw rim. I think that Dave Hickman still plays one as well--at least did the last time we did something together.

Cheers,
EC

By the way, Schilke also built a trumpet out of lead, reasoning that the softer, wider, molecular structure of lead would transmit sound more efficiently. That didn't work either but man, he was a fearless visionary with this sort of thing...

Manny Laureano

Yes, Ed... I think rims are different matter as opposed to the entire mouthpiece. In fact, Kim Dunnick from Ithaca College made a gift to me once of a Bach 3C with a Lucite rim which I used for years with the Selmer piccolo. I believe the reasoning was as you say; comfort, especially when one considers that occasionally you'll have to pick the little horn up after you've been sitting for a while (a la Messiah) and then have to blow. It's nice to have a room temperature feel on the face rather than ice-cold brass.

I liken the variety of plastics to woods. There's balsa and then there's ebony. We even have a regular poster here who has an ivory mouthpiece as part of a collection! Now, that's something that would be fun to hear.

ML

Eclipsehornplayer

It is.... Even funner to play on!

__________________
Eclipse MHY Bb Trumpet with interchangable leadpipes
Bach 229 25A C Trumpet
Getzen Capri Bb Cornet
GR & Monette mouthpieces

Manny Laureano

Okay, so, I found the plastic pink mouthpiece and gave it a whirl after having played on my usual gold plated brass mouthpiece.

It wasn't even close.

With my usual set up, I could hear the entire room (my rather good sized living room) alive, ringing. With the plastic one it was as though I'd thrown a rag over the bell and was less in tune. Now, having said that, if I were in a situation where the conductor wanted less sound and more covered then it would be a possibility to use. That does often happen in the Brandenburg which was the piece I used for the test.

That's also the reason some people like the wooden mouthpieces, from what I understand. There's a slightly more veiled quality to the sound and it makes it easier to stay out of the way in a piece like that.

What the...? Is it snowing on anybody else's computer screen?

ML