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Mouthpieces / Mutes / Other Discuss Mouthpiece shank sizes in the Equipment forums; How many different shank sizes are there. Is the mouthpiece receiver a different size for all different soprano instruments (Trumpet, ...
  1. #1
    Forte User Trumpet guy's Avatar
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    Mouthpiece shank sizes

    How many different shank sizes are there. Is the mouthpiece receiver a different size for all different soprano instruments (Trumpet, Cornet, Flugelhorn, Posthorn) or do some of these have interchangeable mouthpieces?

    And what is french taper?
    "If you're not improving, you're falling behind." - My Trumpet Teacher, Steve
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    Pianissimo User samdaman's Avatar
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    Re: Mouthpiece shank sizes

    Let's see... 1,2,3,4,5.... Just kidding

    Shanks are divided up into a couple catagories-->
    1) Trumpet
    2) Cornet/Picc
    -And-
    3) Flugelhorn which can be described as
    -French Taper (or Coueson Taper); used on Coueson flugels and some other brands
    -Standard taper (or Large Morse Taper); which is the most common on most production brands
    -Bach Taper (or Small Morse Taper); as you can guess, this is most common on Bach flugels and also Courtois flugels, also some other European brands

    Trumpets mostly use the standard trumpet taper; however, you can get trumpets fitted with cornet tapers or I'm sure if you REALLY wanted to, you could get a repair guy to fit some other type of reciever onto your horn (I wouldn't recommend it). I know that some of the vintage CONNstellations have a cornet reciever standard, not a trumpet reciever.

    Cornets use the cornet shanks which are smaller and tighter then a trumpet shank. These shanks can also be used on Piccs too. Piccolo trumpets can also use trumpet shanks depending on the brand and model you get. I know you can also get different leadpipes to accept trumpet shanks rather then cornet/picc shanks. Personally, I think the picc shank gives a picc the classic picc sound, but that's just me.

    Flugelhorns. The trick with these guys is ASK!! Before you buy one ask what taper it is and try it out using that taper of mouthpiece. Most of the time you can get your mouthpiece size/rim in all three tapers. I don't think that many players are partial to one taper or other when it comes to flugelhorns, but then again I've never asked.

    I hope this helps!!! Take care!
    -Sam Tate

    When in doubt, go with the FLOW... musical line, tone production, and resonance.

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    Forte User Trumpet guy's Avatar
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    Re: Mouthpiece shank sizes

    Thanks. that pretty much answered almost all my questions.

    One thing is that I saw a video where Nick Drozdoff was had a Wedge mouthpiece that fit on both the flugelhorn and the cornet. Does this mean that the Flugel taper is a similar size to the cornet receiver?
    "If you're not improving, you're falling behind." - My Trumpet Teacher, Steve
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    Re: Mouthpiece shank sizes

    You also need to taken into account that vintage cornets made before circa 1960 often had shanks that are considered non-standard today.
    For example, the Olds cornet mouthpieces apparently had an extra-large-diameter shank.
    Conn and Holton cornets used short-shank mouthpieces that were approximately 1/4" shorter than modern mouthpieces and had a slightly different taper.
    It was approximately the 1960 era when the various manufacturers finally started using Bach-size mouthpieces as a standard for all their cornets.

    - Morris
    Last edited by screamingmorris; 05-12-2008 at 05:27 AM.

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    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
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    Re: Mouthpiece shank sizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet guy View Post
    Thanks. that pretty much answered almost all my questions.

    One thing is that I saw a video where Nick Drozdoff was had a Wedge mouthpiece that fit on both the flugelhorn and the cornet. Does this mean that the Flugel taper is a similar size to the cornet receiver?
    Some german rotary valved flugels have a trumpet taper on the leadpipe.

    I am sure that Nick has mouthpieces with the same rim, but not a trumpet cup or taper for the flugel version.
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

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    Forte User Trumpet guy's Avatar
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    Re: Mouthpiece shank sizes

    I meant a flugal mpc that fit on the cornet with a nice sound.

    same backbore. It was on a video on youtube.
    "If you're not improving, you're falling behind." - My Trumpet Teacher, Steve
    ------------------------------------
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    Bach Strad 37 - Wedge 3C w/ L backbore
    Bach TR300
    Conn Director Cornet
    Olds Ambassador Fullerton Trombone - Bach 6-1/2 C

  7. #7
    Fortissimo User Brekelefuw's Avatar
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    Re: Mouthpiece shank sizes

    The wedge mouthpieces use the Warburton interchangeable cup system. Nick probably used the same Wedge cup with a cornet shank, then changed the cup over to a flugel shank.

  8. #8
    Piano User DrDave's Avatar
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    Re: Mouthpiece shank sizes

    Nick has a prototype flugel cup that he has been playing on cornet and flugel. As I recall he is playing both on a Warburton cornet backbore. A Back flugel receiver will accept a French taper flugel shank or a cornet backbore. The penetration into the receiver is different in each case, so one has to adjust the tuning slide slightly, but it is usually possible to get the horn in tune. Gap is not an issue as it is in trumpet receivers because most flugel receivers are just a straight tube inside with no step where the receiver joins the leadpipe.

    A number of players have also been playing a Wedge A or AC cup with a cornet backbore while waiting for flugel pieces to come out.

    The actual Wedge flugel top will have an interchangeable backbore that cane be switched between Bach, standard, or French tapers. There will also be a dedicated short trumpet backbore to allow the flugel top to be used on a trumpet.

    Cheers.
    Dave Harrison
    (Dr. Dave)
    www.wedgemouthpiece.com
    Carol Brass 506RS Bb, CTR400CS C, CCR688R cornet, CPC7770YLS picc, CPT300LR pocket trumpet
    Blackburn Bb, C, Eb/D, Bb/A Pic
    Harreslons - 907L
    1946 Martin Committee, 1951 Martin D
    Too many other vintage horns to mention
    Wedge B10.5C-25 Delrin top on 25ML SST backbore
    A VERY understanding wife

  9. #9
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    Re: Mouthpiece shank sizes

    In addition the the above I have in my 'accumilation' a trumpet mouthpiece made by York, an Al-Tru #45 that is not only of a shorter, but also smaller diameter shank than normal, and a like made Besson #6. I wonder why they are made as they were and what particular trumpets they were made to be matched with.


    OLDLOU>>
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