Harald

Hello:

I am new to the forum and this is my first post. Please apologize if I make any errors with this post.

Recently I became interested in playing natural trumpet. However, I am just a hobby trumpet player and didn't want to spend too much money on a natural or baroque trumpet. Thus, I purchased an Amati fanfare (ABG 291A). This is a kind of natural trumpet in E-flat that comes with tuning slides for C and D. Of course, there are no vent holes.

The mouthpiece that came with the ABG 291 is a standard mouthpiece that is ok but not optimal for me. I tried my regular trumpet mouthpiece (a Bach 2) and it did not really fit into the mouthpiece receiver. The mouthpiece receiver is too big and the mouthpiece kind of falls into the mouthpiece receiver.

I wonder if natural trumpet mouthpieces in general have different shank diameters than regular trumpet mouthpieces.

Maybe anyone on the forum has an idea how to resolve this problem. I also wonder if a real baroque trumpet mouthpiece (e.g., Salzburg model, or some type of Egger etc.) would fit in the Amati fanfare.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Harald

Equipment:
Bach Strads Bb and C
Getzen E-flat
Scherzer (Augsburg) D
Olds, Conn cornets
Amati piccolo A/Bb
Rotary piccolo A/Bb (Scherzer copy from China)
Pocket trumpet Bb (from China)
Amati ABG 291A Fanfare (natural trumpet)

stchasking

The Baroque Trumpet Shop

Have you looked at the mouth pieces Naumann makes? I have seen them up close and I know what you mean. Big bore taper and a huge throat. Somebody here will have an answer.

If you are at the University of Iowa you might ask a machinist in the physics department to make a sleeve for your own mouth piece and ream out the throat. Good luck.

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stchasking

Here is another reference close to Iowa City that has some expertise in natural trumpet playing.
Libertyville is north of Chicago.

Charles Stine Crown Music Press
612 Sedgwick Drive
Libertyville, Il 60048

847-549 7124

Charles and his wife are natural trumpet players.

__________________
"I was performing professionally at age 17 and have never had a real job." Allen Vizzutti

http://cdbaby.com/cd/mcking

Harald

Thank you for your quick reply.

Yes, I have seen the mouthpieces from Naumann on the Baroque Trumpet Shop web page. I would even considering purchasing one of them, if I knew for sure that they fit into my Fanfare.

The shank (the part that goes into the mouthpiece receiver) should be just slightly larger than that of a standard trumpet mouthpiece. Do you know if this is the case for the Naumann Baroque trumpet mouthpieces?

Thank you also for the contact information in Illinois. Do you have an e-mail address?

Best regards,

Harald

rowuk

Harald,
the fanfare has NOTHING to do with a baroque trumpet or mouthpieces designed for that. It is essentially a Bb trumpet bell with some more tubing. I don't think that that type of mouthpiece will help much.

The baroque mouthpieces do have a larger shank. Your best bet would to get somebody to make you an adapter and use the standard trumpet mouthpiece.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

stchasking

It beats playing a tigon tube with a transmission fluid funnel.

Attached Images

abg_291g.jpg (3.6 KB, 18 views)

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"I was performing professionally at age 17 and have never had a real job." Allen Vizzutti

http://cdbaby.com/cd/mcking

Harald

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I think you are right by saying that the fanfare is a trumpet bell with more tubing. However, doesn't the longer tubing require a different size mouthpiece (e.g., larger cup, backbore, throat etc.).

I managed to use my Bach 2 mouthpiece on the fanfare by wrapping some tape around the shank of the mouthpiece and I feel the sound of this fanfare is much better with the Bach 2 mouthpiece than with the mouthpiece that was supplied with the fanfare.

I will see if I can find someone who can make me an adapter to get rid of the tape. Based on my experiment with the standard trumpet mouthpiece, I think you are right. I may get the best results by just using the trumpet mouthpiece.

Could you explain me some of the differences between a fanfare and a baroque (or natural) trumpet? I wonder if the baroque trumpets differs in bore size, taper, etc. from the fanfare.


Again, thank you for your comments.

Harald

Harald

Yes, I was using a PVC tube based "natural trumpet" (based on a video that I saw on YouTube) with a funnel as bell before I bought the fanfare. The PVC tube trumpet worked but didn't sounded very well. In addition, I could not get it in tune (I cut off too much of the PVC tubing and it ended up being too sharp).

The tone quality of the fanfare is surprisingly good (with my Bach 2 mouthpiece, not with the supplied mouthpiece). The intonation has the typical problems with the 11th natural tone being sharp etc. But the nice thing about the Amati ABG291A is that it comes with tuning slides for E-flat, C, and D.

I understand that this is not the same as a real Baroque Trumpet, but it serves me well in exploring playing the natural trumpet (and it was affordable for me). I am currently working on the "elefant exercise" in the 1st Tarr book.

Regards,

Harald

rowuk

Harald,
a "natural" trumpet is as diversified as a "piston" trumpet. I'll try and cover the important parts.

First of all, my definition: a "natural" trumpet is actually an original or replica of the instruments used starting in the rennaissance era. The bell shape is more or less unique to the period in which it was built and it has no tuning holes. The bore is smaller than modern instruments and the upper register is fairly easy.
A "baroque" trumpet is a modern instrument (it was most likely invented in the early 1960s) that attempts to get most of the sound qualities of the "nat" but give the modern player possibilities to play with modern intonation. There are 3 or 4 holes that "vent" the system to tune the "bad" notes.

The nat is purely cylindrical except for the bell. There is no flare to the leadpipe and that is why the nat mouthpieces are longer. The shank is tapered and that taper can compensate for intonation issues over the octaves (that high, middle and low C are reasonably in tune for instance). "Baroque" trumpets resort to several modern tricks to make them easier for the casual player to play. Tapered leadpipes (some even let you use conventional trumpet mouthpieces!), holes and larger bell flares are a few of these things.

The Fanfare is simply a Bb bell with more tubing and a tunable leadpipe. The upper register is not very "authentic" and there is no tuning holes to correct intonation. Most of all, the sound sucks compared to a decent instrument.

Learning to play a "nat" or "baroque" trumpet is fun but time consuming. The historic replica mouthpieces have a "cookie cutter" rim, and that does make playing them generally easier - especially trills.

Good luck!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

tedh1951

ROWUK
Perhaps I'm having another stumble with terminology here, what is a "cookie-cutter" rim?

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Ted