New mouthpiece fit on Olds Recording

lakerjazz · 07-12-2008, 10:16 PM

Hi guys,

I'm getting close to buying an LA Olds Recording, and I've heard about some differences between the new receivers and the vintage (I think pre '56) receivers, so I've been wondering what kind of problems in terms of intonation or overall sound would be caused by using a new bach 3c (which is my current mouthpiece)? I saw an older thread similar to this one, but all I seemed to get from that was something about ties and socks.

Thanks

gmcmurry · 07-16-2008, 11:46 PM

I don't think you should have any problem with any standard trumpet mouthpiece on your Recording. I have a couple of Recording trumpets of various ages and am one of those guys that tries about every mouthpiece I can find. Kelly plastic to custom Bush, they all fit and play well.

Funny thing is that I keep going back to my old Bach 10 1/2C that I bought when I was 17 years old. It seems to fit my chops the best. I have never tried another one. I wonder if a new 10 1/2C will play the same as my old one..

BTW I was 17 in 1969 --

Greg

bagmangood · 07-17-2008, 01:17 AM

Most of the problems i've heard about with receivers were with cornets and not trumpets, so i don't think you should worry

lakerjazz · 07-22-2008, 10:58 PM

thanks guys!

oldlou · 07-23-2008, 05:46 PM

For those with early,( Los Angeles made ) Olds cornets that require an oversize shank mouthpiece, an adaptor can easily be made. Cut the receiver off from a junk cornet that was made for a standard Bach taper mouthpiece at about 1 1/4" from the end. Set up a machinists lathe for the taper of any cornet mouthpiece. Turn it down until it fits into the Olds cornet receiver for all but about 1/2" standing proud from the Olds receiver. This allows almost any Bach taper,( standard ), mouthpiece to then be used in the new adaptor. The main tuning slide might need to be moved inward half of the length that the adaptor stands proud. Most local machinists will do this job for just a few bucks. Luckily, I have such a lathe and was trained to use it. Mine cost me nothing.

OLDLOU>>

Brekelefuw · 07-23-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldlou

For those with early,( Los Angeles made ) Olds cornets that require an oversize shank mouthpiece, an adaptor can easily be made. Cut the receiver off from a junk cornet that was made for a standard Bach taper mouthpiece at about 1 1/4" from the end. Set up a machinists lathe for the taper of any cornet mouthpiece. Turn it down until it fits into the Olds cornet receiver for all but about 1/2" standing proud from the Olds receiver. This allows almost any Bach taper,( standard ), mouthpiece to then be used in the new adaptor. The main tuning slide might need to be moved inward half of the length that the adaptor stands proud. Most local machinists will do this job for just a few bucks. Luckily, I have such a lathe and was trained to use it. Mine cost me nothing.

OLDLOU>>

I am so jealous. I want a lathe so badly.

oldlou · 07-23-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brekelefuw

I am so jealous. I want a lathe so badly.

Perhaps if you live as long as I have you just might acquire one.

OLDLOU>>

lakerjazz · 08-23-2008, 07:47 PM

Hi guys, I received my olds recording (it is a trumpet, not cornet- i realized that i didn't clarify that) recently, and although it sound fantastic, I am having a problem with the fit on the mouthpiece. My new bach 3c fits, but it wobbles slightly, and it doesn't screw in completely tight. It still plays with a nice clear sound, and the receiver is not worn, the mouthpiece just doesn't lock in completely. Why is this happening?

stchasking · 08-24-2008, 12:23 AM

The mouth piece is just a little too long.
My repair shop solved this problem by removing material with a polishing wheel.
There is enough jewelers rouge on the wheel to abrade the end of the mouth piece. The technician did a great job fitting the mouth piece to the receiver.
There is very little gap between the mouth piece and receiver.

The taper of most American mouth pieces is a Morse number 1.

If you really want a lathe try Harbor Freight Tools. They import some small Chinese lathes and for beginners that is good enough.

I have friends with these tools so I can pretty much do anything I want to a mouth piece including milling. One of these days I'll make a Wedge out of a B7DW.

DrDave · 08-24-2008, 12:41 PM

I have had a couple of new Bach mouthpieces that wobbled in the receiver. Since starting to make my own backbores, and getting the taper wrong the first few times, I am much more understanding than I used to be about that. It is easy to make a mistake.

The mouthpiece could wobble for a couple of reasons. It could be the right taper, but too long so it bottoms out in the receiver. If that is the case it could be shortened until it just stops bottoming out, and then 1/8 inch more to give the "standard" gap. The change in overall length of the mouthpiece probably will not change how it plays much.

It could be that the taper is wrong, and less than it should be. This can cause the tip of the mouthpiece to contact the sides of the receiver before it bottoms out, and without good contact at the opening of the receiver. Taking some off the end of the mouthpiece will not fit this, because it will just go deeper in, but with too slow a taper it will hit the side wall again and not seat at the top. I that case the shank has to be turned to restore a Morse 1 taper of about .05" per inch.

As for a home made Wedge, it certainly can be done, but it does sacrifice cup depth though, so a B7DW might play a bit more like a B7DE. I made about 40 Wedge prototypes in the R and D phase without a mill (file, grinder, dremel), just because I did not know any better. I ruined a ot of mouthpieces :)

One the ones that worked went to a player and teacher in Winnipeg. All of a sudden ruined mouthpieces that kids had been filing down in to a “Wedge” started turning up in school band rooms :) But if you have some basic machining skills it is possible.

Cheers.
Dave Harrison

07-12-2008, 10:16 PM	#1
lakerjazz Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	New mouthpiece fit on Olds Recording Hi guys, I'm getting close to buying an LA Olds Recording, and I've heard about some differences between the new receivers and the vintage (I think pre '56) receivers, so I've been wondering what kind of problems in terms of intonation or overall sound would be caused by using a new bach 3c (which is my current mouthpiece)? I saw an older thread similar to this one, but all I seemed to get from that was something about ties and socks. Thanks __________________ '50 Olds Recording-Los Angeles

07-16-2008, 11:46 PM	#2
gmcmurry New Friend Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pacific Palisades, CA Posts: 46	Re: New mouthpiece fit on Olds Recording I don't think you should have any problem with any standard trumpet mouthpiece on your Recording. I have a couple of Recording trumpets of various ages and am one of those guys that tries about every mouthpiece I can find. Kelly plastic to custom Bush, they all fit and play well. Funny thing is that I keep going back to my old Bach 10 1/2C that I bought when I was 17 years old. It seems to fit my chops the best. I have never tried another one. I wonder if a new 10 1/2C will play the same as my old one.. BTW I was 17 in 1969 -- Greg __________________ "My Other Car Is A Trumpet" 1966 Olds Recording http://www.gregssandbox.com

07-17-2008, 01:17 AM	#3
bagmangood Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bostonish & San Francisco Posts: 946	Re: New mouthpiece fit on Olds Recording Most of the problems i've heard about with receivers were with cornets and not trumpets, so i don't think you should worry __________________ Bb: Courtois 305 "Elite" C: Bach C180-239 (Akwright conversion), Cornet: Conn Wonder (1900) Picc: Selmer Paris, ~1971

07-22-2008, 10:58 PM	#4
lakerjazz Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	Re: New mouthpiece fit on Olds Recording thanks guys!

07-23-2008, 05:46 PM	#5
oldlou Forte User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 1,242	Re: New mouthpiece fit on Olds Recording For those with early,( Los Angeles made ) Olds cornets that require an oversize shank mouthpiece, an adaptor can easily be made. Cut the receiver off from a junk cornet that was made for a standard Bach taper mouthpiece at about 1 1/4" from the end. Set up a machinists lathe for the taper of any cornet mouthpiece. Turn it down until it fits into the Olds cornet receiver for all but about 1/2" standing proud from the Olds receiver. This allows almost any Bach taper,( standard ), mouthpiece to then be used in the new adaptor. The main tuning slide might need to be moved inward half of the length that the adaptor stands proud. Most local machinists will do this job for just a few bucks. Luckily, I have such a lathe and was trained to use it. Mine cost me nothing. OLDLOU>> __________________ Couturier trumpet York Master Model trumpet York Elite trumpet York Airflow cornet King super 20 Master Model cornet King Liberty trumpet Reynolds Professional cornet Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell Olds Special cornet Los Angeles B&H Sovereign cornet G.R.Band Instr. cornet Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet Many others no room to list

08-23-2008, 07:47 PM	#8
lakerjazz Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	Re: New mouthpiece fit on Olds Recording Hi guys, I received my olds recording (it is a trumpet, not cornet- i realized that i didn't clarify that) recently, and although it sound fantastic, I am having a problem with the fit on the mouthpiece. My new bach 3c fits, but it wobbles slightly, and it doesn't screw in completely tight. It still plays with a nice clear sound, and the receiver is not worn, the mouthpiece just doesn't lock in completely. Why is this happening? __________________ '50 Olds Recording-Los Angeles

08-24-2008, 12:23 AM	#9
stchasking Forte User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,430	Re: New mouthpiece fit on Olds Recording The mouth piece is just a little too long. My repair shop solved this problem by removing material with a polishing wheel. There is enough jewelers rouge on the wheel to abrade the end of the mouth piece. The technician did a great job fitting the mouth piece to the receiver. There is very little gap between the mouth piece and receiver. The taper of most American mouth pieces is a Morse number 1. If you really want a lathe try Harbor Freight Tools. They import some small Chinese lathes and for beginners that is good enough. I have friends with these tools so I can pretty much do anything I want to a mouth piece including milling. One of these days I'll make a Wedge out of a B7DW. __________________ "I was performing professionally at age 17 and have never had a real job." Allen Vizzutti http://cdbaby.com/cd/mcking

08-24-2008, 12:41 PM	#10
DrDave Pianissimo User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 120	Re: New mouthpiece fit on Olds Recording I have had a couple of new Bach mouthpieces that wobbled in the receiver. Since starting to make my own backbores, and getting the taper wrong the first few times, I am much more understanding than I used to be about that. It is easy to make a mistake. The mouthpiece could wobble for a couple of reasons. It could be the right taper, but too long so it bottoms out in the receiver. If that is the case it could be shortened until it just stops bottoming out, and then 1/8 inch more to give the "standard" gap. The change in overall length of the mouthpiece probably will not change how it plays much. It could be that the taper is wrong, and less than it should be. This can cause the tip of the mouthpiece to contact the sides of the receiver before it bottoms out, and without good contact at the opening of the receiver. Taking some off the end of the mouthpiece will not fit this, because it will just go deeper in, but with too slow a taper it will hit the side wall again and not seat at the top. I that case the shank has to be turned to restore a Morse 1 taper of about .05" per inch. As for a home made Wedge, it certainly can be done, but it does sacrifice cup depth though, so a B7DW might play a bit more like a B7DE. I made about 40 Wedge prototypes in the R and D phase without a mill (file, grinder, dremel), just because I did not know any better. I ruined a ot of mouthpieces :) One the ones that worked went to a player and teacher in Winnipeg. All of a sudden ruined mouthpieces that kids had been filing down in to a “Wedge” started turning up in school band rooms :) But if you have some basic machining skills it is possible. Cheers. Dave Harrison __________________ Dave Harrison (Dr. Dave) www.wedgemouthpiece.com Blackburn Bb, C, Eb/D, Bb/C Pic, Bb/A Pic, Bb cornet Harreslons - 907L, 909 Bach 37, 908 Benge 90C Yamaha 635ST Flugel Wedge 5C, Wedge ML backbore A VERY understanding wife and more toys than talent

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