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Mouthpieces / Mutes / Other Discuss Stainless Steel Mpc Makers in the Equipment forums; Hello Good Folks, I am an avid Monette mpc player. My main is a BL4-S6. Recently, I've had the priviledge ...
  1. #1
    Forte User Bear's Avatar
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    Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    Hello Good Folks,
    I am an avid Monette mpc player. My main is a BL4-S6. Recently, I've had the priviledge to try out a stainless steel mouthpiece and I fell in love. So, my question is, does anyone know a company that will take my current mpc, copy it, and make another out of stainless steel? Yes, I've contacted Kanstul, they don't do it.
    By the way, the piece I tried out was "The Wedge". If y'all haven't tried them, please call/email Dr. Dave and set something up. They are amazing pieces.

    Thanks,
    Tim
    The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles, but to irrigate deserts.
    -C. S. Lewis

    Life is about learning; when you stop learning, you die. -Tom Clancy

    And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
    -Revelation 8:6

  2. #2
    Utimate User tedh1951's Avatar
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    Re: Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    Tim, what are the features of the SS mouthpiece that grabbed your enthusiasm bone? Although I am sworn to Goldplated MPs, I'm interested in your thoughts on SS.

    I recently asked a question about manufacturers of SS trumpets - but it didn't seem to get off the ground - perhaps it just shows that I asked a poor question in the first place.
    Ted

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    Forte User Bear's Avatar
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    Re: Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    Hello Ted,
    For me (again, I must always insert a disclaimer about "what works for me, may not work for others" and yadda yadda) I really enjoyed the smoothness of the mouthpiece. I cannot describe that facet anymore than saying it was just really, really smooth feeling on the face. Aren't all rims smooth? Mostly yes, that is why I'm having trouble explaining that.
    Another factor was that the SST mouthpiece really seemed secure. Maybe solid is a better word to use. I felt like I did not have to manipulate things to get the effects I wanted.
    Also, (I didn't notice this but my lead alto said something to me after class) my sound had more presence without pushing any harder. If anything, it felt like I could relax behind the band and still feel like I was leading.
    I think that's about the major points. Did you have any specific questions? Anyways, the stainless steel mpc was a "Wedge" by Dr. Dave and I think if interested, you ought to check 'em out. He has answered all of my questions (even non trumpet related) in a quick and professional manner. Anyways, take care.

    Keep blowin',
    Tim
    The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles, but to irrigate deserts.
    -C. S. Lewis

    Life is about learning; when you stop learning, you die. -Tom Clancy

    And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
    -Revelation 8:6

  4. #4
    Forte User Trumpet guy's Avatar
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    Re: Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Hello Good Folks,
    I am an avid Monette mpc player. My main is a BL4-S6. Recently, I've had the priviledge to try out a stainless steel mouthpiece and I fell in love. So, my question is, does anyone know a company that will take my current mpc, copy it, and make another out of stainless steel? Yes, I've contacted Kanstul, they don't do it.
    By the way, the piece I tried out was "The Wedge". If y'all haven't tried them, please call/email Dr. Dave and set something up. They are amazing pieces.

    Thanks,
    Tim
    Have you asked Dave Monette if he'll work with stainless steel to make you a new piece?

    Also, about the wedge, are you sure that your extra power with less effort is just that it's stainless steel, or does the wedge design also factor into your added efficiency? you might want to give the brass wedges a try and compare the 3 pieces (monette, wedge, and wedgeSS)side by side with a second pair of ears listening to find out whether it was the stainless steel or the wedge design that helped you out.
    "If you're not improving, you're falling behind." - My Trumpet Teacher, Steve
    ------------------------------------
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  5. #5
    Forte User Bear's Avatar
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    Re: Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    I have asked Dave (Dean Comley actually, wonderful fellow) if they would do it. I've also asked WEDGE to copy my current piece, and I've asked Kanstul, GW, LOUD, and a few other smaller folks but the answer is the same: It is too cost prohibitive to work with stainless steel in a custom copy way.

    "Also, about the wedge, are you sure that your extra power with less effort is just that it's stainless steel, or does the wedge design also factor into your added efficiency? you might want to give the brass wedges a try and compare the 3 pieces (monette, wedge, and wedgeSS)side by side with a second pair of ears listening to find out whether it was the stainless steel or the wedge design that helped you out." - quoted from Trumpetguy

    I believe that both the Wedge design itself and the fact that it was SST helped with the added effiecienty. I have two pieces from Dr. Dave and only the one is SST. I have done a semi-blind test with my section from jazz band and they all conclude that the Wedge in SST is more "clear and resonant in projection and sound quality".
    The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles, but to irrigate deserts.
    -C. S. Lewis

    Life is about learning; when you stop learning, you die. -Tom Clancy

    And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
    -Revelation 8:6

  6. #6
    Fortissimo User TrentAustin's Avatar
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    Re: Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    My stainless steel Wedge pieces are astonishing. I can't believe how much they positively changed the way I play.

    Cheers,
    T

  7. #7
    Utimate User tedh1951's Avatar
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    Re: Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Hello Ted,
    For me (again, I must always insert a disclaimer about "what works for me, may not work for others" and yadda yadda) I really enjoyed the smoothness of the mouthpiece. I cannot describe that facet anymore than saying it was just really, really smooth feeling on the face. Aren't all rims smooth? Mostly yes, that is why I'm having trouble explaining that.
    Another factor was that the SST mouthpiece really seemed secure. Maybe solid is a better word to use. I felt like I did not have to manipulate things to get the effects I wanted.
    Also, (I didn't notice this but my lead alto said something to me after class) my sound had more presence without pushing any harder. If anything, it felt like I could relax behind the band and still feel like I was leading.
    I think that's about the major points. Did you have any specific questions? Anyways, the stainless steel mpc was a "Wedge" by Dr. Dave and I think if interested, you ought to check 'em out. He has answered all of my questions (even non trumpet related) in a quick and professional manner. Anyways, take care.

    Keep blowin',
    Tim
    Thanks Tim, I was interested in your take on things - because I have found that in trying to describe experiences for others often gives some personal insight, perhaps leading to an Ahh Haa moment for you. Your description could lead to some insights for me, something that I didn't know I was looking for - or may provide clues for others, all good reasons for you to annunciate your decision making process for us - very generous of you, thanks.

    I will have a play with things stainless and, when I can get a chance a wedge, - now that you have raised the point.

    I took a conscious decision some time ago not to chase the "mouthpiece holy grail" - I already own 6 mouthpieces, a thing marked 6A ?? (purchased in 1962 and a very small cup), a Bach 7C, a Weril 7C, a couple of goldplated Benge 3Cs (one for each main horn), and a Monette B6 about AUD$750 worth of mouthpieces - I could have bought another trumpet.
    Last edited by tedh1951; 01-18-2009 at 12:39 AM.
    Ted

    Harrelson Bravura
    Getzen Eterna Classic 900
    Getzen Eterna II 700S
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    Forte User Bear's Avatar
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    Re: Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    Good point. I strongly oppose anyone going on a quest for the holy grial in terms of instruments or mouthpieces. I have found that wanting to change something is usually due to something not working on the person (closed throat, double buzz, too much/little tension, etc) not the equipment. I sound like me on a five dollar mouthpiece and 20 dollar horn or a 300 dollar mpc and 3K horn. The only difference is that the latter is so much more easier/efficient! HAHA. With all the money I've frivoulsy thrown away in the past decade, I could've bought several of the dream horns I so desperately want.

    I was (and am) VERY happy with my Monette line (B4) that I play on. I was curious as to the Wedge since Mr. Austin and some others mentioned it. Then I started researching the acoustical properties of stainless surgical grade steel and was pleasantly surprised. I really would like to find someone who could do my primary piece as a stainless steel copy.
    The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles, but to irrigate deserts.
    -C. S. Lewis

    Life is about learning; when you stop learning, you die. -Tom Clancy

    And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
    -Revelation 8:6

  9. #9
    Piano User DrDave's Avatar
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    Re: Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    Hi Tim,

    I think the change in sound you and others in the band notice is due to mostly the Wedge, and secondly to the SST. STT will typically tend to be a bit brighter with a little less core to the sound than brass. It will speak more quickly and be easier to play very quietly, while providing great projection. It tends to be a little more brittle than brass when it comes to splitting notes, but this settles down when you use a heavy weight backbore.

    The brass Wedge you had for comparison to the SST was a Herriott Lead, which is one size smaller than the 7FC-25 and has a very large 22 throat compared to the 25 on the 7FC2-25 SST. These two factors will also contribute to the differences noted between the two Wedges.

    A couple of my endorsing artist lead players have converted to SST because it projects so well, as has Trent. However, I think they would say that the incremental improvement from a brass to a SST Wedge was less than the improvement between their old mouthpiece and the Wedge.

    I`ll email you to suggest the next step in your size trial. I think you should try a 7FC in SST with one size larger in the throat - a #24.

    SST is indeed hard to work with. It takes three times as long to mill a SST top as brass, produces mean slivers, and it breaks tools like crazy. That is why very few manufacturers will use it. I only made the first SST piece for Trent, but was so impressed by how it plays that I added it to the line. The guys in the shop still have not forgiven me :)

    Cheers,
    Dave
    Dave Harrison
    (Dr. Dave)
    www.wedgemouthpiece.com
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    Fortissimo User veery715's Avatar
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    Re: Stainless Steel Mpc Makers

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDave View Post
    The guys in the shop still have not forgiven me :)
    Cheers,
    Dave
    Indeed, the properties of stainless steel from a machining point of view make it a total bear to work with. If you proceed too quickly you'll break cutting tools as if there is no tomorrow. Too slowly and you'll be dulling the same tools. The rotational speeds and the rate you can advance a tool are limited to a very narrow range. The extreme hardness required to cut stainless makes tools more brittle and more expensive.
    A machinist who has worked extensively with brass will find stainless a very frustrating material. Likely, forgiveness will be a long way down the stainless road, Dave.
    veery

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