Sofus

Deleting me is your right and your choice, my friend
(I still call you that since you´ve done me no harm).
Take care!

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity

RobertSlotte

:(

I hate to do people harm. I am raised well and I always would like to see people happy but On the other hand I think you have done Nordlands harm. And I fore SURE do NOT think you are in title to call him your friend,

__________________
THE TRUMPETS SHALL SOUND!

Robert Slotte

Bach Model 43 Bb
Yamaha 8310z Bb
B&S Eb-Trumpet
B&S D-Trumpet
Gezen A/B piccolo

Sofus

I´m sad too, Robert!

I LIKE YOU!!




No, I can immagine that he doesn´t feel that way!
The truth is still that I like him too, and that I think
he´s a funny and very nice guy.
My suggestion to him is very simple; stop calling the sleeves a
SOUND ENHANCEMENT system, since this maybe varies from
player to player. Instead, focus on the obvious benefits that
they have, being so estetic and all.
I cannot defend that someone plays on us trumpeters emotions
regarding our never ending demand for further playing skills.
If one of us offer Sound Enhancement, I think it´s only fair that
the rest ask for proof of this. I haven´t lowered my demands on
Nordlands just because he´s one of us. One day he may be one
of the really big trp stuff producers, and then EVERYBODY will feel
that they have the right to ask for verification regarding his products.
Why can´t that be allowed to ask for already now?

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity

RobertSlotte

--------------------------------------------------------------------

__________________
THE TRUMPETS SHALL SOUND!

Robert Slotte

Bach Model 43 Bb
Yamaha 8310z Bb
B&S Eb-Trumpet
B&S D-Trumpet
Gezen A/B piccolo

Markie

Thanks Rowuk!!!
Your ability and willingness to support what you say "IS" the big part of what separates you from the masses. Bravo! and Thank you!

Markie

Hi sofus,
I'm not quite sure why your knickers are in a twist about the concept of a wooden sleeve, but if memory serves me correctly, the market place will be the final arbitor of this invention pending the company's marketing strategy and bottom line are sound.

I think its great that people are expanding ideas and trying new things. Just think, if people hadn't been inventive, we would still be playing trumpets with keys instead of valves.

From a research perspective, if you wish to make a claim about something(in this case how the wooden sleeve doesn't work as prescribed), you should back it up with your own literature search. A lack of information on this particular topic from Nordsland's site does not give support for your claim!
In addition, you use the word "prove" alot. In research we use the term "support" for our claims, we almost never say "Prove"
As for Nordsland I say it takes a lot of guts to try something new and I admire what they are doing. Bravo!

Sofus

Hi, Markie!

Thank you for actually turning to me with your questions!
As long as people keep talking to each other, the hope
of things beings traighened out and placed at the level
where they belong isn´t yet dead.


Yes, I agree to that.


I think that too, Markie! All new, good things spring from that.
The fact that Nordlands is doing the job he´s doing may well lead to some new,
good results in the future. The only problem is that he´s not presenting results
from a long time series of studies, instead he´s presenting the sleeved mp as
Sound Enhancers right from the start!


First of all: since this is Nordlands invention, no such literature can exist.
Secondly: my main questioning the sleeves add up to two single questions

1) If one cuts off a certain amount of brass when making the threads,
will a wooden sleeve make up for this mass loss, or will the mp be lighter
afterwards? A simple test like this could already have been done, but I
haven´t got the impression that it is.
2) When adding mass (no matter if of wood, lead, glass or other) in the
way it is done (by the help of the thread), will the mp mass and the
added sleeve mass act together as one, united mass, or will there in fact
be new resonance frequencies added to the system.


I agree with you, Markie, but that doesn´t help the buyer. If it is claimed that what
the buyer will get is a Sound Enhancement System, a lack of information from the
producer to back this statement up won´t feel good to at least me, as a buyer.


You´re absolutely right! The word support is a much better word, and is the
one I should have used! I´ll do better in the future.



YES! A BRAVO from me, too (honestly, although some people in here don´t trust me
enough anymore to believe that I actually mean it)!!


SOME FINAL THINGS:

* I definitely think that Nordlands should go on with his work!
* I think that he should not yet call them a Sound Enhancement System.
Instead, I think he should wait and see what his experimenting leads to.
* I think my questions about how the two masses interact would be a
good thing to explore when experimenting!
* I DO NOT have any wish to harm him, although this has been suggested
by people I thought were my friends! I actually LIKE HIM. He´s a very nice
guy with a great sense of humor, and we´ve all laughed at his pics etc.
* I LIKE his sleeved mp`s! They are cool, beautiful and classy. However,
should I buy one at this stage, it would not be because I believed that they
would enhance my sound, since this is not yet a supported statement.
I just might buy them because of their estetics.



A tip for Nordlands: in the following article

Mouthpiece Mass

it is stated that some players may need a mp with more mass,
while others may benefit from one with less mass.
By posting this link I´ve now HELPED Nordlands with some support
that he can make use of. No matter whether he adds or removes mass,
the article will support that the change will be beneficial for at least some
players!



A final thought; in this forum, today a player feels unhappy about a cornet
that he bought. It is simply not as good as was claimed by the company selling it. He feels cheated!

Promising something isn´t a very good idea unless it holds water!
People get this feeling of being cheated.
This goes for sleeves to. If one promises that they will enhance your sound.
it had better be true, else ones company soon enough will get a bad rumor.
I don´t think Nordlands would want this to happen.
I don´t think his costumers would want this to happen, either!
When I pose my questions about interacting masses etc., and whether the
sleeves will be as good as promised or not, I think of the buyers, not
Nordlands. Since he has a lot of friends in here, I now get some beating.
All i can say is that, although I like Nordlands, I will still take the beating,
I will still be on the buyer´s side.

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity

Markie

Let me be the first to correct this.
It appears that you are being treated in an unfriendly manner because you are being mean and potentially hurtful in a financial way to an individual who has done no harm you or anyone else. You've chased the love away.
Even in my books (and I can be pretty mean) you are stepping over the line by attacking Nordland's product by forming an illogical premise and then illogically working it to an illogical conclusion.
Now you're trying to smooth over your claims by coming across as an advocate, protecting the general buying public.
Intrestingly, your advocacy to the common man appeared to emerge only when people started stomping on you with both feet.
You can do whatever. As for me, If I were in your shoes, I'd find a way to say "I'm sorry" to Nordlands and be specific as to what you need to amend.
Is the better part of valor to find loopholes and continue on a one man crusade or to apologize and start new?
However, if using moral questioning about virtues such as valor doesn't appeal to you, let me break it down this way.
If push came to shove and you had to defend your claims in a Court of Law, could you do it?
Remember, once in court, it is your responsibility to defend your claim that the wooden sleeve fails to do what it proports.

Of course there is always saying "I'm sorry" and starting over.
Due to your behavior, I must put you on the ignore list.
Good Luck

RobertSlotte

Sofus,

I think Markie is right, I think you should apologise to Nordlands.
In my book that would show that you have the guts to admit when
doing something not so good and it would give you some more respect
from a few people here, me included.
Then we could discuss again on forums as adults that we are.

__________________
THE TRUMPETS SHALL SOUND!

Robert Slotte

Bach Model 43 Bb
Yamaha 8310z Bb
B&S Eb-Trumpet
B&S D-Trumpet
Gezen A/B piccolo

Sofus

I can see no reason to once again repeat what I´ve
so many time already said.

If you were able to discuss the facts regarding whether
the sleeved mp´s actually will give a buyer what they
promise or not - Sound Enhancement - then I would
respect you!

I you were able to admit that the questions I´ve posed
about adding mass in the way it´s done has something
to do with their ability to function as promised - then I
would respect you!

As it is now, YOU are the ones that are chasing an individual
who has at least ment to do no harm. What i´ve done is merely
to pose some questions and point out that there ARE questions
that need to be answered.

I´m smoothing nothing over. I just don´t think that I should care more
for someone because I know him or his name, have chatted or talked
to him and laughed at his contributions to the usually good atmosphere
in here.
I ALSO want to care for the other members that I´ve not yet got aquainted
with, but who may be potential buyers of the product discussed.
Don´t any of you guys think that we have an obligation to help each
other in finding out the truth regarding what actually works and what
instead is unable to hold what it promises?


That´s just the problem, Robert!
As long as I don´t confess to the accusations the both of you
present, YOU break your friendships with me, YOU put me on the Ignore list.
NOT ONCE have I heard any of you respond to what I say about the mp sleeves.
ALL I hear from you is that I´m mean and harmful, and explaining over and over
again doesn´t seem to help. You attack my person, which is more than I´ve done to anyone of you.

You are both MORE THAN WELCOME to take a discussion based on questions about the sleeves with me. I´m very willing to try to explain further what my questions regarding the way the sleeved mp´s are constructed are.

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity