Jingle Writing

Annie · 07-02-2007, 01:32 PM

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I figured here might do. Does anyone have any experience with jingle writing and the expectations for the writers?

administrator · 07-04-2007, 09:22 AM

Might want to ask Tony Kadleck!

johnmarkpainter · 07-04-2007, 11:13 PM

I do. Any specific questions?

Often, you are given demo money to make a 'demo' (better not sound like a demo!) to be pitched. Then you will have to revise it a few times and told that you are 'in the running' to get the job.

Then you don't get the job :)

The last 'spec' job I did like that, I lost out to The Beatles and I have avoided them since.

If you are actually hired to do the job, then you must expect to do revisions and to take input from people that might not know anything about music. It can be difficult to understand what they want you to do and that is a big part of getting good at the job.

The other common expectation is to totally rip off a piece of music that they don't want to pay for.

jmp

Annie · 07-05-2007, 12:06 PM

I didn't know about the demo money - I assume that covers studio costs?

Vulgano Brother · 07-05-2007, 01:08 PM

In the case of "made and played" local market jingles share, the jingle writer is usually the arranger, copyist, producer, studio owner, and marketing chief of his own jingle writing business. In a bigger environment, with big budget national jingles (like AFM local 802 in New York), there is more money, more division of labor, and excellent pay and benefits for the musicans. This creates a market for the smaller, independent jingle producers, which have, over time displaced musicians.

When I was active in the AFM and RMA, we worked quite hard to come up with a "made and played" jingle agreement that would protect musicians and the product in smaller, regional markets as well the major markets. It hasn't worked out as well as hoped, because most purchasers of music could care less about protecting musicans and their markets, and sadly, most musicans feel the same.

johnmarkpainter · 07-05-2007, 02:15 PM

There are lots of different business models but the one's I have been around go like this:

You get a frantic call. You get $250 - $1,500 to turn out a demo or demos very quickly. Rarely do you get more than 2 days. Usually, the Jingle house is calling a few different composers and paying them all to demo.

You get a creative brief, a storyboard or Quicktime Video file, maybe an example song that they like (or that they don't like and want to replace).

Some Jingles are "buyouts" that are a one time payment, no residuals. Others go 'on the card'. Generally, local jingles are buyouts. If you get the job , you get XXX amount more money. The Jingle house gets XXXXX amount of money.

If you get the Job, you will do some more revisions and it is usually going to air in just a few days so the turnaround is FAST.
Multi-Instrumentalists/Programmers that have their own studios get pretty much all of the work.

RE: "Protecting Musicians..."
We do have to look out for each other but the brutal truth is that TONS of work is going overseas to avoid dealing with the AFM at all.
I arrange for Strings/Brass/Orchestra and it is a constant fight to keep projects from going to Prague, Seattle, Ireland, England etc...

Don't get me wrong....I LOVE making Double Scale and getting Special payments checks in the mail :)

When it is cheaper to go to London and record a big section at Abbey Road then we ALL have a problem!

jmp

Annie · 07-07-2007, 02:55 PM

Even some of the music jobs are going overseas?? (Though I know people overseas need work too - I just thought it was mainly in the production industry with steel and other goods...)

How is AFM making it hard?

johnmarkpainter · 07-07-2007, 07:48 PM

I am not blaming the AFM.
Just the fact that you can't force every project to pay higher rates plus pay royalties when they cn get the job done elsewhere for less money

tatakata · 07-08-2007, 10:12 AM

Great info in your posts John. Thanks!

Annie · 07-08-2007, 11:43 AM

Thanks for the info!

07-02-2007, 01:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Annie Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 425	Jingle Writing I wasn't sure where to put this, so I figured here might do. Does anyone have any experience with jingle writing and the expectations for the writers? __________________ ~Annie I may not be great yet, but I'm working hard on it and one day I'm gonna be there.

07-04-2007, 09:22 AM	#2 (permalink)
administrator Administrator Forte User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,063	Re: Jingle Writing Might want to ask Tony Kadleck! __________________ Review TM site rules here Post your Favorite Trumpet Link here

07-04-2007, 11:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
johnmarkpainter Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 111	Re: Jingle Writing I do. Any specific questions? Often, you are given demo money to make a 'demo' (better not sound like a demo!) to be pitched. Then you will have to revise it a few times and told that you are 'in the running' to get the job. Then you don't get the job :) The last 'spec' job I did like that, I lost out to The Beatles and I have avoided them since. If you are actually hired to do the job, then you must expect to do revisions and to take input from people that might not know anything about music. It can be difficult to understand what they want you to do and that is a big part of getting good at the job. The other common expectation is to totally rip off a piece of music that they don't want to pay for. jmp

07-05-2007, 12:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
Annie Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 425	Re: Jingle Writing I didn't know about the demo money - I assume that covers studio costs? __________________ ~Annie I may not be great yet, but I'm working hard on it and one day I'm gonna be there.

07-05-2007, 01:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
Vulgano Brother Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Home Posts: 3,265	Re: Jingle Writing In the case of "made and played" local market jingles share, the jingle writer is usually the arranger, copyist, producer, studio owner, and marketing chief of his own jingle writing business. In a bigger environment, with big budget national jingles (like AFM local 802 in New York), there is more money, more division of labor, and excellent pay and benefits for the musicans. This creates a market for the smaller, independent jingle producers, which have, over time displaced musicians. When I was active in the AFM and RMA, we worked quite hard to come up with a "made and played" jingle agreement that would protect musicians and the product in smaller, regional markets as well the major markets. It hasn't worked out as well as hoped, because most purchasers of music could care less about protecting musicans and their markets, and sadly, most musicans feel the same. __________________ "A tool good enough to be so used and not too good" C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength www.letsbuildhope.org

07-05-2007, 02:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
johnmarkpainter Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 111	Re: Jingle Writing There are lots of different business models but the one's I have been around go like this: You get a frantic call. You get $250 - $1,500 to turn out a demo or demos very quickly. Rarely do you get more than 2 days. Usually, the Jingle house is calling a few different composers and paying them all to demo. You get a creative brief, a storyboard or Quicktime Video file, maybe an example song that they like (or that they don't like and want to replace). Some Jingles are "buyouts" that are a one time payment, no residuals. Others go 'on the card'. Generally, local jingles are buyouts. If you get the job , you get XXX amount more money. The Jingle house gets XXXXX amount of money. If you get the Job, you will do some more revisions and it is usually going to air in just a few days so the turnaround is FAST. Multi-Instrumentalists/Programmers that have their own studios get pretty much all of the work. RE: "Protecting Musicians..." We do have to look out for each other but the brutal truth is that TONS of work is going overseas to avoid dealing with the AFM at all. I arrange for Strings/Brass/Orchestra and it is a constant fight to keep projects from going to Prague, Seattle, Ireland, England etc... Don't get me wrong....I LOVE making Double Scale and getting Special payments checks in the mail :) When it is cheaper to go to London and record a big section at Abbey Road then we ALL have a problem! jmp

07-07-2007, 02:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
Annie Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 425	Re: Jingle Writing Even some of the music jobs are going overseas?? (Though I know people overseas need work too - I just thought it was mainly in the production industry with steel and other goods...) How is AFM making it hard? __________________ ~Annie I may not be great yet, but I'm working hard on it and one day I'm gonna be there.

07-07-2007, 07:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
johnmarkpainter Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 111	Re: Jingle Writing I am not blaming the AFM. Just the fact that you can't force every project to pay higher rates plus pay royalties when they cn get the job done elsewhere for less money

07-08-2007, 10:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
tatakata Mezzo Forte User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 959	Re: Jingle Writing Great info in your posts John. Thanks!

07-08-2007, 11:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
Annie Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 425	Re: Jingle Writing Thanks for the info! __________________ ~Annie I may not be great yet, but I'm working hard on it and one day I'm gonna be there.

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