FlugelFlyer

Given this is a lounge post, hopefully this develops a lounge atmosphere and not a steel cage one. I don't intend this isn't a topic to debate personal beliefs in music or promote any beliefs or any music; rather, I'd like to see opinions on how personal beliefs affects tastes in music, if at all.


For me, it's no secret that I'm a Christian Republican, and being primarily in the rock / metal side of things as a musician, one has to wonder how I cope with being in a world of primarily secular liberals. To me, I've found as I expand my musical tastes, I have to evaluate not only what the artist's message is, but also what's behind the message. One of my favorite popular bands is the "self intellectualized pinko commie" power trio of the 70's and 80's, Rush. I don't think Geddy has vocalized anything belief but an anti-feudal society as he might put it, heavily denouncing superficiality. For me, rather than immediately toss him in the can, these days I try to evaluate what prompts him to sing about such things, and what I can speculate is that he sings about "God and Government" being used as tools to supress weak people. What I personally believe is true Christianity isn't something that can be forced down other people's throats; it is something that can only be presented and can only be accepted by each individual.


The above also coincides with my favorite "indie" band, Aghora. The vocal theme is primarily Buddhist philosophy from what I can gather, often times speaking about how "truth reveals nothing more than self". To me, before I can make a commentary on the lyrics, I'd have to ask myself, "What defines 'self'?" I'm no sage of Buddhist philosophy, but to my knowledge, they believe that self is inherently good, whereas Christians believe self is inherently bad. What I can gather personally is that self is not the same thing in each culture.


Closer to you guys, Miles Davis has been accused of being racist. To me, that is an independant issue of what he's done for jazz and for modern music. The trumpeters and other musicians he has influenced through his music will always stand alone as a great act and leave him with a great legacy.


Anyways, I don't intend this to be preachy-preachy. My question to all of you: personal beliefs are strong in each individual's life; so do you see an important connection between beliefs and musical taste?


One of the things that though has traditionally annoyed me is people suggesting such ridiculous comments as "If you listen to Pantera, you're a confederate skinhead," or "If you listen to System of a Down, you're a pinko commie." I believe I'm allowed to enjoy music on a musical level regardless of the message behind it.


Finally, yes, you could say I'm the type who listens to everything from Mahler to Mog Ruith.

dizforprez

Perhaps you should read "Zen and the Art of Archery"

Manny Laureano

FF,

For clarity's sake, are you making a distinction between the variety of musical styles one listens to as a teenager/early 20's and the tastes you develop as an adult?

ML

trickg

Manny, I think that he is saying that, but also that as you age and become more aware of the world politically, and become more in tune with your own personal political or religeous beliefs, that your tastes in music might be influenced or hindered by the political or religeous stance of the composer, or the message the lyricist was trying to convey.

To go back to one of FF examples, I have always enjoyed Rush, and really didn't become aware of their own personal beliefs and how they were imparted into their music until I was in my late 20s. Now that I know, it hasn't really affected my enjoyment of the music, but it does give greater insight into the meaning of the tunes.

It's very interesting that as an adult, I'll hear a popular tune that I have probably "heard" dozens of times, and for the first time I'll really listen to the lyrics. I'm often very surprised, especially with the innuendo and double entendre of many of the popular tunes that are played on the radio. For example:

My Sharona - this song is just...well, it's foul, and it always amazes me when the band plays it, just how hard it hits on the dance floor.
Freeway of Love (Aretha Franklin) - This song is NOT about a blacktop highway!
Pink Cadillac (Springsteen) - this song is NOT about a car.
The Reflex (Duran Duran) - Not for children
Get Down On It (Kool and the Gang) - again, not for children

But on the flips side of that, there is a fair amount of music that is on the Radio that has very definte Christian double meaning. A few popular artists or groups that match this, just off the top of my head:

Creed
Evanescence
Amy Grant's popular music
LeAnne Rimes
U2

The other day when the tune "Bring Me to Life" by Evanescence came on the radio, I pointed out the Christian conotations to someone, and they were just floored - they had never really heard the song that way before.

Sorry, I might have gone a little off topic, but I think that it's another intersting aspect, particularly where popular music is concerned.

BigBadWolf

In my particular case, I listen to music if I enjoy it. I do not really care about the life/lives of the creator(s). I see it being akin to sports. Can anyone legitimately say that they like TO or Randy Moss? No, they are despicable people. But they are dominant on the field, and very enjoyable to watch. It is entertainment, that is all.

rjzeller

I think BBW has a good point -- generally we listen to music we enjoy. Oftentimes we aren't even thinking about the lyrics, and often don't care about the artist.

I am a huge U2 fan, and it's mostly because of the music and lyrics. I like that they're christian (well...most of them) and how they can make such great music without being "preachy", while still giving great hidden meaning to a number of their tunes. I rarely, if ever, however, agree with Bono when it comes to politics.

That's okay, I still enjoy the show.

Generally, unless the artist is just TOO offensive, I'll listen if I find the music enjoyable. Exceptions include Nine inch Nails, whose music I enjoy, but which I cannot bring myself to listen to becuase of the words and the meaning they carry. There's only so many ways one can interpret a song like "closer"....

But so long as they aren't extreem, I can listen to U2, Springsteen, even the Stones.

My two favorite groups (U2 and Collective Soul) may be strong in their christian backgrounds, but that doens't mean I don't enjoy other performers as well.

Besides, sometimes it's the music that brings us together, no matter how varried the background.

dizforprez

I agree with BBW, and I would add that personally I would never turn to a pop band for deep meaningful commentary on the world.

trickg

While I agree with you, it's amazing how many people do just that - many are highly influenced in their day to day lives by the lyrics and music from the collective recordings of their favorite artists. Of course, most of the people I am refering to that fall into that category are highly impressionable youths, many of whom don't have any viable role models in directly in their regular lives, so they create them out of thin fabric that is presented to them through TV and radio.

FlugelFlyer

Manny,

Thanks for the question. I was merely using more popular artists as examples because many of them are alive today. However, I'm not too familiar with what was inside the minds of some of the orchestral and jazz composers. I guess this could be discussed on a couple of fronts, both mainstream artists and academic artists.

Just to make up a completely hypothetical scenario (not meant to carry any truth), if someone was to interpret Mahler's conversion from Judaism to Roman Catholicism as a move to sympathize with Hitler (again, just bear with me, this is absolutely not meant to bear any truth), would it affect your appreciation for his works? Another example, I've heard people criticize Phil Smith's playing by stating that because he is Christian he cannot interpret the muisic he plays as well as other principal trumpet players. To me, this doesn't make sense, not because of my own beliefs, but because of how this jumps to conclusions.


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I guess a couple more I can think of is the multiple accusations of Wynton Marsalis being racist. I've known people who won't listen to Wynton just because of these accusations, but to me, I don't care what his beliefs are, I'm going to listen and learn from his music, as I don't believe his music will cause me to hate white people. Perhaps the same can even be said for Reggae artists such as Bob and Ziggy Marley.

Back on the popular front, another band that has actually been influential to me in my composition for their odd structures and their classical influences is Dream Theater. Their whole "Trains of Thought" album seems like it was meant to be a big political mess. That has never stopped me from listening to that album, and if I don't like the philosophy or the lyrics, I tune them out.

One more that should touch home with most everyone here, Tower of Power. To me, they're as out there in terms of philosophy as Michael Moore. However, that has never stopped them from being one of my favorite all time bands.




I know, I'm weird discussing popular artists on a trumpet forum, but again, I don't seek to debate who has the greater music IQ, Bela Bartok or Billy Idol (really, is there any debate there?), rather to encompass all composers and artists together and evaluate if their philosophical messages has any bearing on their music or the listener.

dizforprez

Any one that would say that is a dumb @$$, life is to short to waste talking with someone that stupid.