Sofus

Hi gals´n pals!

As you may have read in this forum, I nowadays
believe in stretching the lip muscles. By that I mean
stretching the lip muscle that is put into the mouthpiece,
called Orbicularis Oris.
What my experience tells me is that stretching my lips
before playing is worthless since they will feel odd when
put to the mouthpiece. Stretching the lips after having
finnished playing for the day on the other hand is good!

Many people know about athletes stretching their muscles

* to prevent them from ripping at the following exercising
* to keep them flexible and not reshape themselves into round balls
* to make them recover faster
* to get a better muscular growth


When I stretch my lips the width goes from 39 mm to 47 mm
which is an increase of about 20%. The measure is taken between
the corners of my mouth before and after the strech, when the lips
are in a relaxed state, and it´s taken with a slidecalliper.

So here´s a poll to see what the general opinion about the
matter is when it comes to trumpeters lips!


Please also comment why you think what you think, since
more than just statistics then is produced!

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity

trumpetnick

Sofus,

I don't know where do you get these crazy ideas of yours...Maybe from R. Schumann?

You can have a deviceless demo here:


or use something like that:



You may look funny after that...but will be able to kiss an elephant afterward

__________________
Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

Sofus

Hi TN! I should have expected you to be the first to answer . . .

This is not the only pianist who has wrecked his hand
trying to stretch his fingers. There is another very famous
one that I can´t remember the name of at the moment.

The difference is:

* there are no joints in the lips
* there are no sinews in the lips
* the lips are not forced into some unnatural position


The video is . . . I don´t know . . . horrible?? I´ve seen people who can do
that with their entire skin, this due to the lacking of collagen (I think!) in it.

So, instead of just stating that the idea is crazy, please explain why!
Is it just because noone else does it, as far as you know, or do you have
a more scientific explanation to why you call it crazy!?

HAS stretching never any value to any muscles?
ARE lip muscles of a different kind, thereby reacting differently to stretching?

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity

rowuk

Sofus,
we are creatures of habit. if you are used to stretching your lips, then it helps. If not, then it doesn't.

I like to play a couple of notes before a gig. It gives me a good idea how rough the evening is going to be................. I do not stretch AND the muscles used to play trumpet are not like leg or arm muscles that may benefit from stretching.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Sofus

Why not?
In what physical way do lip muscle
fibres differ from arm/leg muscle fibres?

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity

rowuk

Muscle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The face are primarily fast twitch IIb. The legs/arms are combination of slow and fast twitch.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Sofus

OK, great!! I´ll take your word for that
the lips are made of this kind of muscle!
Again I´ve learned something!!

Mitochondria are the power stations that produce ATP,
the fuel that muscles use. Plenty of mitochondria means
good aerobic capability.
Myoglobin is a proteine which binds oxygen and helps the
muscle hold a solid oxygen level.

None of the two say anything about how white muscle
fibre reacts to stretching as far as I can understand though,
so now to the new questions that arise:

1) won´t this kind of muscle contract into a ball when exercised
but never stretched, just like the red kind?

2) if it does contract into a ball, won´t stretching have the same
beneficial effect upon it, i.e. faster growth, faster recovery and
more flexibility, as it will have on the red kind?


I´m glad that you have studied these things so carefully,
especially since you are willing to patiently share this
with the rest of us! This is such a special field that usually
only physicians have knowledge of, and every time I learn
something from you I feel very pleased and grateful!

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity

rowuk

1) Sofus, we are talking about the mouth. I don't know a person on the planet who doesn't exercize that muscle excessively!

2) playing trumpet is only part strength. More important is the fine motor activity that is the opposite of body building (microscopic, accurate, controlled movements vs muscle mass and raw power). That must be synchronized with our breathing and relaxed body.

Because my face is the way it is, I only deal with it the way that I do. I don't have any theories about building a better face. That is better left to God.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Sofus

That´s may be true to some extent, but playing the trumpet
puts new and tougher demands on them than any normal
mouth activity (including kissing!) ever does.


Absolutely!!
I´m not trying to put focus on muscles instead of the microwork
that only practising can do!
However, I do not see any conflict in having good lip muscles and
achieving the needed, microscopic, accurate, controlled movements that
good playing is built upon! I think we get the best result when we have both!
Also, the fact that our lips get tired when playing long and demanding gigs
indicates that good muscles must be worth something . . .


I don´t think it has to be left to God!
When Usain Bolt beats the world records he needs both good leg
muscles and a very finetuned tecnique. He leaves none of the two
parts to God . . .


Anyway, we agree that microscopic, accurate, controlled movements are
needed for good playing. Still, Maurice Andre would never have made it
the way he did if he had had my lip muscles, no matter how well
controlled movements etc. he had had.

My question is a simple, physiological one: will the white kind of muscle
fibre that you have tought me that the lips are made of react the same
way to stretching as the red kind does, i.e. will stretching white muscle
fibre also have the benefits of

* less danger of rupture when used

* better muscle flexibility

* better muscle growth

* faster recovery after hard work


Please do not see this as if I´m trying to give people an alternative
to achieving the microscopic, accurate, controlled movements are
needed for good playing by practising. I´m not! I´d just simply like
to know the physiological facts about white muscle fibre.

__________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway


********************

Mouthpiece and Solidarity

rowuk

white means no blood is flowing and that is BAD news for playing trumpet. Look what happens to the white meat on chickens - it gets turned into McChicken nuggets!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.