gzent

It just keeps getting uglier.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168591,00.html

When will this country wake up?

Leave the UN and kick the bums out of NY!!!

__________________
Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation

Manny Laureano

You know... this is really sad.

As an old New Yorker the UN was such a cool thing to go to on class trips and such. It was a real point of pride. It makes me sad to wonder how long this crap's been going on.

ML

gzent

Manny,

You're not old, just a heartless Republican!

Seriously, this is an example of what happens when you have a large, powerful, unelected group of politicians that don't have to answer to anybody.

Maybe a few felony convictions in federal courts will send a message that the free ride is over?

I wonder if the average New Yorker would be upset with this kind of thing or if they are used to it?

Greg

__________________
Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation

Clarino

So instead of trying to fix the problem, you think it would be more helpful to just leave?


Way to look at the big picture.

__________________
"...you have the perfect C Major chord, with blazing trumpets and inaudible strings." - Daniel Barenboim.

gzent

And what big picture might that be, the one broadcast from fantasyland where an unelected body of elites decides what is best for the world and unerringly puts their grandiose ideas in practice without consideration of individual rights? Is that the picture you see, Clarino?

To paraphrase "Democracy is a terrible form of government, but its better than all the rest". The UN, by its nature, will never achieve its objectives because of its lack of checks and balance and because of its concentration of power.

__________________
Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation

Manny Laureano

Hey, Clarino,

Oh, don't misunderstand... I'm not saying to abolish the UN. I'd just like to seem them in another country, say, France or Russia. It would seem to make things a lot more convenient for them. Every police officer in NYC would jump for joy as would the residents who can't park anywhere in the vicinity.

ML

Clarino

Greg, if you're not going to take it seriously then I'm not going to bother talking to you.




Manny, my main point is that we need the US to be involved in the UN for it to work. And I believe it's in the best interests of humanity to make the UN work. Moving it out of New York moves it further away from the US (not just in terms of geography, you understand) and allows Americans to view it as something that doesn't concern them. Frankly, I get frustrated when Americans view us as "fair weather friends" and more than a little insulted when my country's representatives are referred to as "bums".

__________________
"...you have the perfect C Major chord, with blazing trumpets and inaudible strings." - Daniel Barenboim.

Manny Laureano

C,

Wow... I have never heard any friend of mine refer to the UK that way! I certainly don't believe that if I would hear it. You guys have stood with us just about every time we needed you and I sure as hell see you as our allies.

Fine, we can differ on specific issues as nations but I think the friendship is a solid one.

I'll tell you one thing many Americans think about the UN and it is that it has no teeth. All the UN resolutions in the world don't seem to convince guys like Hussein to see the error of their ways. So, you see, they see it as a bit useless in the very matters they purport to try to hold sway. Whereas, unfortunately, a few well-placed missiles seem to have a little more ability to convince them. Look at Libya and it's leader Qadaffi. Look at the Cuban missile crisis. The UN had no power but it took Kennedy staring the Communists down to make them blink.

So, while I'm speaking with tongue-in-cheek regarding moving the UN, you see that I feel as though they have had a part in creating the distance many here feel with them.

Yikes! Enough... Brandt beckons ( I'm working on the end of the first Concertpiece). What a pain in the neck.

ML

Clarino

Actually, I thought the "Fair weather friends" comment was from you in the "what would you do if you were president?" thread, but I went and checked and I see I was mistaken. My appologies. I'm sure I've seen it written here on TM though, not about the UK specifically, but about the UN (and by implication all its members).

As for the UN itself, I don't think it should have any teeth. The military power should be maintained by individual nations. Unfortunately the US is the only major nation keeping its end up at the moment. My point is that the UN is (or at least should be) a major talking shop that every nation respects. If the US refuses to respect the UN no other country can be expected to. I'm not expressing myself very well at the moment, but I think you can understand what I'm getting at. Lets clean up the UN, and make it respectable before it goes down the tubes like the League of Nations did.

__________________
"...you have the perfect C Major chord, with blazing trumpets and inaudible strings." - Daniel Barenboim.

Manny Laureano

Well, I think you and I clearly agree that there needs to be an effective way for the UN to be an effective vehicle for making countries that sanction illegal or terroristic acts to toe the line. That would include the US.

Here's the problem: how do you ensure lack of prejudice that would be punitive for a country that the Security Council members just decided they didn't like? I could just imagine the sorts of back door deals to screw a country over for any number of reasons.

Later,

ML