Arrow or Indian?

Bear · 07-09-2006, 07:34 PM

Hello good folxs,
I just wanted to start a little discussion about individual views on an issue I've been facing recently. I've had a younger friend have me try out all these different horns he got his hands on (yammie, bach, call, monette, kanstul) and he kept asking why I could the same things on all the horns regardless of the specs. For instance he would say something like "This one is a lead horn" and I'd play a little lick on it in the upper registers. Then he would hand over a "classical" horn and I'd be able to play the same lick and it would confound him.
So the question is: In your expeirence, which matters more: The equipment or the player.

For my own answer: I know people who swear up and down on one particular horn, but for me I find that I can do anything I want on any horn, the only differences being in certain sound qualities. Ok, and... DISCUSS!

***Please keep this civil. We do not need any brand flamming or name calling. If some of the physicists, intellects, and professonals would weigh in, we would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

Tim
The Bear

B15M · 07-09-2006, 08:23 PM

A chain is only as good as it's weakest link.

tpter1 · 07-09-2006, 08:33 PM

I think it's the player. That said, I think certain setups allow a player to realize their sound concept a bit easier than others.

uatrmpt · 07-09-2006, 08:40 PM

From Bear's Signature:

Quote:

Monette "B4" line of mouthpieces
Bach 3C, NYTC Stage 1

Why not just the 3C?

Because different pieces produce different results for you. Just like trumpets do for others!

Bear · 07-09-2006, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uatrmpt

From Bear's Signature:

Quote:

Monette "B4" line of mouthpieces
Bach 3C, NYTC Stage 1

Why not just the 3C?

Because different pieces produce different results for you. Just like trumpets do for others!

Very right... However, recently I have been just using the 3C for everything.

So do we think that the standard mold of trumpets fit the average player the best? If so, why are we seeing an influx of "custom" type horns? Do we just like to have the choices out there though most horns seem to have the same "features"?

TrentAustin · 07-09-2006, 09:30 PM

The Indian is much more important but some like playing on the best tool for the job.

I know I'd sound like me on a First Act but the effort required to play on the same high level would be FAR greater than on my horns made for the way I play (that play in tune and respond incredibly easy).

FWIW,

t

Bear · 07-09-2006, 11:21 PM

ok, so I can see this is goin' to end up in a "it takes both" and rightly so. The good idian had better have a good arrow. Kewlness, thxs for y'all's input.

Tim Bear

Manny Laureano · 07-09-2006, 11:22 PM

A trumpet without a player is pieces of metal.

A player without a trumpet is at least a singer, a whistler, a clapper, and maybe a dancer.

It's all about the player.

ML

PH · 07-09-2006, 11:39 PM

..........

wiseone2 · 07-10-2006, 12:14 AM

When Lee Morgan moved back to Philadelphia, he sometimes borrowed one of my horns, a large bore red brass Bach 25 bell horn. It sounded just like Lee when he played it.
Freddie played an ancient Bach of mine in my Village apartment. We were both lucky to survive that insanity. It was 4 am......... Freddie could have gotten us killed. Sam Krauss played the same old Bach for me.....in Philadelphia and at about 3 pm in the afternoon. Sam sounded like Sam, just as Freddie sounded like Freddie when they both played that old Bach.

It is the man behind the horn, not the horn.
Wilmer

View Poll Results: Which matters most in your view:
The equipment one plays on	1	2.44%
The individual chops one posseses	40	97.56%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

07-09-2006, 07:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
Bear Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: CO Posts: 783	Arrow or Indian? Hello good folxs, I just wanted to start a little discussion about individual views on an issue I've been facing recently. I've had a younger friend have me try out all these different horns he got his hands on (yammie, bach, call, monette, kanstul) and he kept asking why I could the same things on all the horns regardless of the specs. For instance he would say something like "This one is a lead horn" and I'd play a little lick on it in the upper registers. Then he would hand over a "classical" horn and I'd be able to play the same lick and it would confound him. So the question is: In your expeirence, which matters more: The equipment or the player. For my own answer: I know people who swear up and down on one particular horn, but for me I find that I can do anything I want on any horn, the only differences being in certain sound qualities. Ok, and... DISCUSS! ***Please keep this civil. We do not need any brand flamming or name calling. If some of the physicists, intellects, and professonals would weigh in, we would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your time. Tim The Bear
	__________________ Of what value would it be to make a prosperous living unless you know how to live?! - anon.

07-09-2006, 08:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
tpter1 Forte User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern New York Brand: Lawler Posts: 2,309	I think it's the player. That said, I think certain setups allow a player to realize their sound concept a bit easier than others.
	__________________ -Glenn "Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting

07-09-2006, 09:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
TrentAustin Moderator Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Boston, MA Brand: they have brand names? ;) Posts: 1,404	The Indian is much more important but some like playing on the best tool for the job. I know I'd sound like me on a First Act but the effort required to play on the same high level would be FAR greater than on my horns made for the way I play (that play in tune and respond incredibly easy). FWIW, t
	__________________ Trent Austin Van Laar B4, Kanstul Mariachi 990, Vintage Conns (6A, 28A, 36B, 38B)...Wedge 3 series mouthpieces http://www.trentaustin.com http://www.onlinejazzimprovisation.com http://www.myspace.com/trentaustinmusic http://www.putfile.com/jazzmanta check out the new clips I added 6/11/08

07-09-2006, 11:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bear Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: CO Posts: 783	ok, so I can see this is goin' to end up in a "it takes both" and rightly so. The good idian had better have a good arrow. Kewlness, thxs for y'all's input. Tim Bear
	__________________ Of what value would it be to make a prosperous living unless you know how to live?! - anon.

07-09-2006, 08:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
B15M Forte User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Monroe Ct. Posts: 1,245	A chain is only as good as it's weakest link.

07-09-2006, 11:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	A trumpet without a player is pieces of metal. A player without a trumpet is at least a singer, a whistler, a clapper, and maybe a dancer. It's all about the player. ML

07-09-2006, 11:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
PH Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Brand: Eclipse Posts: 581	.......... Last edited by PH : 05-22-2007 at 11:33 AM.

07-10-2006, 12:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
wiseone2 Artitst in Residence Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brooklyn,NY Posts: 2,154	When Lee Morgan moved back to Philadelphia, he sometimes borrowed one of my horns, a large bore red brass Bach 25 bell horn. It sounded just like Lee when he played it. Freddie played an ancient Bach of mine in my Village apartment. We were both lucky to survive that insanity. It was 4 am......... Freddie could have gotten us killed. Sam Krauss played the same old Bach for me.....in Philadelphia and at about 3 pm in the afternoon. Sam sounded like Sam, just as Freddie sounded like Freddie when they both played that old Bach. It is the man behind the horn, not the horn. Wilmer
	__________________ Be sure Brain is engaged before putting Mouthpiece in gear. S.Suark 1951

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