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Horns Discuss Bach Chicago C in the Equipment forums; To All, I just received my Bach Chicago C . I have been playing a Yamaha Chicago Artists C and ...
  1. #1
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    Bach Chicago C

    To All,
    I just received my Bach Chicago C . I have been playing a Yamaha Chicago Artists C and wanted to compare the two, as I have always played Bachs.
    The intonation was ok and the sound was more 'present' up close by the horn. Overall not too bad, until I looked at the horn.
    I have heard rumors of craftsmanship, but did not want to believe it until I got a chance to order one for myself.
    Basically, you can see and feel all of the seams on every slide and the silver laquer was peeling off of three slides, tuning slide was ok.
    This is depressing to me not only because I was hoping to keep the horn(before I received it), but for $2400.00 you would think you could get a decent horn.
    I will not be keeping this horn and will not order another one. I might try to find a good 229/25h someday but for now I will stick with the quality horn I have.
    I just wanted to vent and see if anyone else had the same type of experience.
    I do not want this to turn into a Yamaha vs. Bach thing, but when you put them side by side, not only playing wise, but appearance, you clearly get what you pay for in the Yamaha.
    I was not looking to replace the Yamaha, but wanted an option and to be able to do this comparison.
    I should have kept my last Bach, it was about $1700.00 and a pretty good horn. Oh well I guess those days are over. Thanks for the venting time. Brian B

  2. #2
    Pianissimo User Lezwoymn's Avatar
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    Re: Bach Chicago C

    Wow, what a shame. I have played a yamaha xeno with reversed tuning slide and let me tell you how much easier it was to play compared to a Bach. Save some money and get the Xeno. Trust me, you'll be happy you did. But, good luck in whatever one u end up with.

  3. #3
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    Re: Bach Chicago C

    What a drag. Just out of curiosity, if the workmanship had been better (no change in the way it plays), would you have kept it?

    The only Bach I've ever bought new was a lightweight lacquered Bb and the lacquer started coming off literally within days (in a swealtering musicial pit). But in this case, it was a good enough horn not to care so I still have it and it's still ugly!

    Nice to see someone else from Colorado!

    Jason.

  4. #4
    Pianissimo User 65Strad's Avatar
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    Re: Bach Chicago C

    Wow that surprises me. I bought and have had my Chicago C for a few weeks and it looks great fit/finish and plays better than it looks. I had gone to Dillons once since then and they had two others. Same quality fit/finish (great!) and they played great too.

    Yamaha is an incredible horn too. Bach Chicago $1,000.00 less but for me the Bach even at the same price, or more. I guess you can tell than Im happy. Soory about your situation. Maybe give another a try and you might experience what I and others have experienced the other way. For me this horn has an incredible sound.

    Numerous Christmas gigs and I've never enjoyed playing a horn as much as this one. You see it as it is.

    Last edited by 65Strad; 12-31-2007 at 05:38 AM.
    Tom D'Antoni

    '08 Bach custom Bb SN#2008
    '65 Bach 181 37 SN#30836 Brand New
    '66 Bach 180 37 SN#39773 Brand New
    '69 Bach 181 37 SN#58831 Raw Brass
    '72 Bach 180S 43 SN#70503 1st Valve Trigger
    '05 Bach VBS 196 SN# 560142 A/Bb Piccolo
    '07 Bach Chicago C SN#656602
    '10 Dillon Flugel Rose Brass

  5. #5
    Pianissimo User dizzyizzy's Avatar
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    Re: Bach Chicago C

    I also had a "craftmanship" issue on the Bach Chicago C. Ordered it last year, when they were first available from Tulsa Band, (I had to wait until they received them). Supposedly they checked out the 5 horns they received, and sent me what they felt was the best one. (yeah). There had been a previous issue on another model/make horn prior to this one, so I had asked them to go over the Bach well.

    Anyway, as I take the Bach out of the box/case, I immediately see "minor" issues with the finish. On the 2nd valve brace, (a chevron shaped thing) it had a burr cut along the chevron base, looked like by a roto-tool, that had not been filled/finished/plated etc.

    The horn "played" well, but I still...for that amount of money...wanted a "new" horn. (We don't usually pay top dollar for "new" cars that might have damage to the finish...so...same with a new horn). Yes, I "might" damage it myself later, etc...but...it was NEW. It was SUPPOSED to be "perfect", (so to speak).

    So I sent it back. I decided I did not want to "test" Bach further. I went to ITG that year, played every "C" there, (incl the Bach's)...bought th Edwards Gen III.

    dizzyizzy

  6. #6
    Pianissimo User Luis M. Araya's Avatar
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    Re: Bach Chicago C

    Quote Originally Posted by Lezwoymn View Post
    I have played a yamaha xeno with reversed tuning slide and let me tell you how much easier it was to play compared to a Bach.
    Do you have a C Yamaha Xeno with Reversed LP?

    Who did the conversion?

    LMA
    Music is my life

  7. #7
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    Re: Bach Chicago C

    One thing to remember is that one member on one of these forums had an issue and the guy in charge Ted Waggoner called personally and shipped out flawless parts to fix issues. They seem to have a guy in change who cares A LOT so if you have an issue call them and give them a chance. You may be pleasantly surprised. Others have recently been.
    Kanstul Chicago 1001 w/ Kanstul M-B11 P (Monette B1-1 Prana)
    Conn 80A w/ CG Personal GP

  8. #8
    Pianissimo User 65Strad's Avatar
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    Re: Bach Chicago C

    ewetho and trptcop,

    I'm the guy that Tedd called. I had a couple of questions, and unexpectedly Tedd called me. My only minor cosmetic issue was the 2nd valve pull nib has a slight imperfection that I casually mentioned to Tedd not really thinking much of it. Tedd immediately asked my address and sent another right out.

    This horn absolutely sings when playing with a large chorus and organ as well, really a tremendous presence.

    My serial number is #656602 which is a post strike horn. Is yours that late or later? When I was at Dillon and saw and played two others, their build quality and playability were both great as well. In fact from a playability standpoint, this Chicago C is the equal or better than my vintage and NOS very early Elkharts and I'm pretty picky about my horns playability/build.

    Many people that I have talked to feel that the post strike horns are some of the finest to come from Bach in quite a while. I can't argue against that with my experience and the personal attention from Tedd. This man cares, I would contact Conn-Selmer and relay your concerns and mention that you have a Yamaha Chicago C. They will most likely take your number and have someone (maybe even Tedd) call you back. I would be surprised if you didn't get satisfaction.

    Here is a picture of the pull nib "non/issue". Leather Specialties is making a different custom guard for this horn because it is narrower side/side and smaller from the leadpipe to 2nd valve slide than standard Bach C's. They are fantastic people too, and incredible product quality.

    Let us know how you make out with Conn-Selmer. I would go direct as the store doesn't have the same stake in the product as the manufacturer. Keep playing it and see if you don't wind up realy liking it alot.

    Happy New Year!

    Last edited by 65Strad; 01-02-2008 at 12:28 AM.
    Tom D'Antoni

    '08 Bach custom Bb SN#2008
    '65 Bach 181 37 SN#30836 Brand New
    '66 Bach 180 37 SN#39773 Brand New
    '69 Bach 181 37 SN#58831 Raw Brass
    '72 Bach 180S 43 SN#70503 1st Valve Trigger
    '05 Bach VBS 196 SN# 560142 A/Bb Piccolo
    '07 Bach Chicago C SN#656602
    '10 Dillon Flugel Rose Brass

  9. #9
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    Re: Bach Chicago C

    Thanks to all for the replies and the suggestions.
    I have been playing the Bach for people and have decided that there are enough playing and sound qualities that are better(slightly) for me than the Yamaha that I will probably switch to the Bach.
    Here is my dilemma. Do I send the horn back to Woodwind and Brasswind and request another that may look better but might not play as well? Maybe I can get a discount from them for the laquer issues..hahaha.
    I will attempt a resolution from WWBW and try the mentioned contact at Conn-Selmer also.
    I will post when I get a response from them. It might help someone else who might end up with a "new" horn that plays great and looks like its not
    Thanks again for the responses. Brian B

  10. #10
    Pianissimo User 65Strad's Avatar
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    Re: Bach Chicago C

    Good Luck Brian, let us know.
    Tom D'Antoni

    '08 Bach custom Bb SN#2008
    '65 Bach 181 37 SN#30836 Brand New
    '66 Bach 180 37 SN#39773 Brand New
    '69 Bach 181 37 SN#58831 Raw Brass
    '72 Bach 180S 43 SN#70503 1st Valve Trigger
    '05 Bach VBS 196 SN# 560142 A/Bb Piccolo
    '07 Bach Chicago C SN#656602
    '10 Dillon Flugel Rose Brass

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