Buying a trumpet?(Giardinelli GTR 512 Professional Trumpet)

pitchfork · 03-20-2006, 10:56 PM

im new and i want the best i can get for around $600. is the Giardinelli GTR 512 Professional Trumpet any good? any suggestions would be great.

Tootsall · 03-21-2006, 10:36 AM

First, there aren't any "Professional" trumpets that you can buy new for $600. Think about doubling that. You could find a good, used, professional model for around there if you look hard and get lucky on Ebay. The rule "You get what you pay for" is seldom more true than when buying a new instrument.

Do you have a teacher yet? What do they say about what you should buy? They will doubtless have a much better idea of what suits you in your situation (age, seriousness, financial situation, natural ability or lack thereof) than any one of us who have never even seen you could begin to guess at.

oldlou · 03-21-2006, 11:00 AM

I hate to disagree with you on anything, as I consider you much more knowledgable in the field of music than I. In this case, I have learned to look upon the advice from private music teachers, per the purchase of new equipment to be more than slightly tempered by their commercial attachments. Here locally, almost all of the local teachers are on a commission basis with one or another of the local musical instrument dealers. This applies to the top seated members of our local symphony as well. They will do their utmost to influence their students to buy whatever high grade horn will pay them the most in commission money. An impartial opinion by a private teacher is virtually impossible to come by, locally. This might not be the case with school teachers, but, just might be the case there as well. Sorry.

MrClean · 03-21-2006, 11:16 AM

I've never heard of such a thing, and have not gotten a single dime in "commission" from any dealer over the recommendation of a horn. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but...

J

Tootsall · 03-21-2006, 11:17 AM

Lou, you are correct that many teachers will have "agendas" when it comes to selecting a horn (as do we all!). My point was that at least a teacher will know a lot more about the specific individual than we do and what one would recommend to a young student might be entirely different from what would be a good recommendation for a serious (albeit beginner) older student who may have an entirely different degree of seriousness about where they want to go with their music.

IOW, we aren't disagreeing so much as accepting that there are others who may be better placed than we, given the amount of information available, to make a recommendation.

oldlou · 03-21-2006, 11:37 AM

A case in point to back my contention is a local fairly accomplished trumpeter from a local community band who started to take lessons from one of our local 'private teachers'. This trumpeter was playing a very fine Bach,( New York ) trumpet. His new teacher talked him into trading in his Strad to buy a Yamaha Xeno,( old model ). he was told by his teacher that the Strad was outdated and the Yamaha was of "newer technology". In the opinion of several of the other trumpeters in his section, myself included, his old Bach sounded much better. BTW, the 'teacher ' now owns and plays the old Bach. Was his advice valid? I seriously doubt it. In my personal opinion, the teacher just wanted to get his hands on the old Bach at a rock bottom price, and get paid for selling the new, old model Yamaha. This is unscrupulous.

Persaonally, I play a 1946 Martin Committee Model cornet, contrary to the wishes of my latest 'teacher'. I do NOT intend to get rid of my old Martin, even though the lacquer is peeling and that makes it look a bit shoddy. If the right price on an Olds Recording Model or Mendez trumpet should present itself, I 'might' be tempted but, I will still keep my Martin.

MJ · 03-21-2006, 03:09 PM

This doesn't make sense to me. Who is paying these "trumpet teachers" comission? The music store that sells the instrument? Surely it is not Yamaha and Bach. And I wonder how much they are marking these trumpets up to "pay off' the trumpet teachers?

Also are you saying this teacher had this friend of yours trade in his bach for a Xeno and then the teacher bought the Bach and is playing on it

oldlou · 03-21-2006, 03:22 PM

Almost all of the local 'private teachers' are employed by dealers. Retired public and charter school music teachers in most cases.

In this instance, the retired public school teacher also gigs with various local bands and orchestras.

I play in two communittee bands. This snake plays in one of them. The guy that he 'took' on this deal plays in the other. The 'teacher' was bragging about his new acquisition just last week.

I am a cynical elderly trumpeter who has little faith in any teacher that talks his students into becoming his customers. In that most of the 'private teachers' operate on the premises of a dealership it should be no surprise to find out that they are encouraged to sell products from the store of their employer.

MJ · 03-21-2006, 03:47 PM

Ok so these guys are teaching out of music stores. Now I understand the connection there. What that guy did was not cool at all. Has anyone spoken out about this? Has anyone confronted this "teacher"?

oldlou · 03-21-2006, 03:53 PM

Yes!! I did. I berated him and did my best to humiliate him in front of our entire band. The hardhearted b-----d laughed, saying that the buyer should always beware.

03-20-2006, 10:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
pitchfork New Friend Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Buying a trumpet?(Giardinelli GTR 512 Professional Trumpet) im new and i want the best i can get for around $600. is the Giardinelli GTR 512 Professional Trumpet any good? any suggestions would be great.

03-21-2006, 11:00 AM	#3 (permalink)
oldlou Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 591	To Tootsall I hate to disagree with you on anything, as I consider you much more knowledgable in the field of music than I. In this case, I have learned to look upon the advice from private music teachers, per the purchase of new equipment to be more than slightly tempered by their commercial attachments. Here locally, almost all of the local teachers are on a commission basis with one or another of the local musical instrument dealers. This applies to the top seated members of our local symphony as well. They will do their utmost to influence their students to buy whatever high grade horn will pay them the most in commission money. An impartial opinion by a private teacher is virtually impossible to come by, locally. This might not be the case with school teachers, but, just might be the case there as well. Sorry. __________________ Couturier trumpet York Master Model trumpet York Elite trumpet York Airflow cornet King super 20 Master Model cornet King Liberty trumpet Reynolds Professional cornet Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell Olds Special cornet Los Angeles B&H Sovereign cornet G.R.Band Instr. cornet Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet Many others no room to list

03-21-2006, 11:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
oldlou Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 591	Teacher recommendations A case in point to back my contention is a local fairly accomplished trumpeter from a local community band who started to take lessons from one of our local 'private teachers'. This trumpeter was playing a very fine Bach,( New York ) trumpet. His new teacher talked him into trading in his Strad to buy a Yamaha Xeno,( old model ). he was told by his teacher that the Strad was outdated and the Yamaha was of "newer technology". In the opinion of several of the other trumpeters in his section, myself included, his old Bach sounded much better. BTW, the 'teacher ' now owns and plays the old Bach. Was his advice valid? I seriously doubt it. In my personal opinion, the teacher just wanted to get his hands on the old Bach at a rock bottom price, and get paid for selling the new, old model Yamaha. This is unscrupulous. Persaonally, I play a 1946 Martin Committee Model cornet, contrary to the wishes of my latest 'teacher'. I do NOT intend to get rid of my old Martin, even though the lacquer is peeling and that makes it look a bit shoddy. If the right price on an Olds Recording Model or Mendez trumpet should present itself, I 'might' be tempted but, I will still keep my Martin. __________________ Couturier trumpet York Master Model trumpet York Elite trumpet York Airflow cornet King super 20 Master Model cornet King Liberty trumpet Reynolds Professional cornet Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell Olds Special cornet Los Angeles B&H Sovereign cornet G.R.Band Instr. cornet Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet Many others no room to list

03-21-2006, 03:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
oldlou Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 591	Commision salesmen Almost all of the local 'private teachers' are employed by dealers. Retired public and charter school music teachers in most cases. In this instance, the retired public school teacher also gigs with various local bands and orchestras. I play in two communittee bands. This snake plays in one of them. The guy that he 'took' on this deal plays in the other. The 'teacher' was bragging about his new acquisition just last week. I am a cynical elderly trumpeter who has little faith in any teacher that talks his students into becoming his customers. In that most of the 'private teachers' operate on the premises of a dealership it should be no surprise to find out that they are encouraged to sell products from the store of their employer. __________________ Couturier trumpet York Master Model trumpet York Elite trumpet York Airflow cornet King super 20 Master Model cornet King Liberty trumpet Reynolds Professional cornet Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell Olds Special cornet Los Angeles B&H Sovereign cornet G.R.Band Instr. cornet Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet Many others no room to list

03-21-2006, 03:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
oldlou Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 591	Private teachers Yes!! I did. I berated him and did my best to humiliate him in front of our entire band. The hardhearted b-----d laughed, saying that the buyer should always beware. __________________ Couturier trumpet York Master Model trumpet York Elite trumpet York Airflow cornet King super 20 Master Model cornet King Liberty trumpet Reynolds Professional cornet Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell Olds Special cornet Los Angeles B&H Sovereign cornet G.R.Band Instr. cornet Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet Many others no room to list

03-21-2006, 10:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tootsall Fortissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Yee HAW! Posts: 4,641	First, there aren't any "Professional" trumpets that you can buy new for $600. Think about doubling that. You could find a good, used, professional model for around there if you look hard and get lucky on Ebay. The rule "You get what you pay for" is seldom more true than when buying a new instrument. Do you have a teacher yet? What do they say about what you should buy? They will doubtless have a much better idea of what suits you in your situation (age, seriousness, financial situation, natural ability or lack thereof) than any one of us who have never even seen you could begin to guess at.

03-21-2006, 11:16 AM	#4 (permalink)
MrClean Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 242	I've never heard of such a thing, and have not gotten a single dime in "commission" from any dealer over the recommendation of a horn. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but... J

03-21-2006, 11:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tootsall Fortissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Yee HAW! Posts: 4,641	Lou, you are correct that many teachers will have "agendas" when it comes to selecting a horn (as do we all!). My point was that at least a teacher will know a lot more about the specific individual than we do and what one would recommend to a young student might be entirely different from what would be a good recommendation for a serious (albeit beginner) older student who may have an entirely different degree of seriousness about where they want to go with their music. IOW, we aren't disagreeing so much as accepting that there are others who may be better placed than we, given the amount of information available, to make a recommendation.

03-21-2006, 03:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
MJ Forte User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naptown Posts: 1,808	This doesn't make sense to me. Who is paying these "trumpet teachers" comission? The music store that sells the instrument? Surely it is not Yamaha and Bach. And I wonder how much they are marking these trumpets up to "pay off' the trumpet teachers? Also are you saying this teacher had this friend of yours trade in his bach for a Xeno and then the teacher bought the Bach and is playing on it

03-21-2006, 03:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
MJ Forte User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naptown Posts: 1,808	Ok so these guys are teaching out of music stores. Now I understand the connection there. What that guy did was not cool at all. Has anyone spoken out about this? Has anyone confronted this "teacher"?

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