Can/should a bell be patched?

y-o-y · 11-04-2009, 11:27 AM

I recently picked up an almost-free Besson 609 to use as a project/tinkering horn. At some point in the past, there was some serious damage done to the bell and it appears as though it got the accordian treatment as there is a crease/crimp all the way around, right about where the seam would be on a two piece bell (not sure if this bell is a one or two piece). When it was damaged and/or repaired, one small 4mm tear developed as well as a hole, smaller then a pin hole in close proximity.

Can/should this be repaired? I think I read somewhere that the impact of damage on the performnace of a horn is diminished as you move from the leadpipe to the end of the bell. I don't know if I believe that, but if there is some truth to that generality, I would imagine this damage won't be a huge factor in the performance of the horn. At the same time, I don't think I have ever seen a bell with a patch in that location. Additionally, I am fearful of inserting any mutes for fear of exacerbating the damage.

A new bell from Kanstul is $150...I could get the whole trumpet for that price on ebay, so unless I can find a busted up 609 with an intact bell, I don't think replacement is a cost effective option.

Dale Proctor · 11-04-2009, 11:42 AM

Is it something that could be soldered shut and buffed smooth? How thin is the metal in the repaired area? If it's really thin, a patch may be the only fix if you want to keep the bell. I've seen bell flares with patches, but I have no idea how they affected the playability of the horn.

Mamba21500 · 11-04-2009, 12:16 PM

Well, you should take it to a brass repair workshop, and ask them, I'd imagine most people that are knowledgeable in that area on this forum need pics. If it is really bad, either scrap the horn, or replace the bell, I don't think a bell that is flat is reparable.

Dale Proctor · 11-04-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamba21500

...If it is really bad, either scrap the horn, or replace the bell, I don't think a bell that is flat is reparable.

Take a look at this.

Welcome to Bach - Trumpets, Trombones, Cornets, Fluegelhorns

vntgbrslvr · 11-04-2009, 04:41 PM

Take it to a decent brass repair shop...Splits can at times be silver soldered with success.

Look at the second cornet down on this page. When you click on the before pics you will see a split in the bell. This was fixed by silver solder then gold plated after. It really depends on the location of the split, and the thickness of the brass.

After it's fixed it may look like a real frankenhorn....scars and all.....but it might also make it stable.

Brian

y-o-y · 11-04-2009, 07:34 PM

Thanks for the advice. I took it to my repair guy and he was able to solder the split with little difficulty.

This is my "project" horn, so I welcome the scars and frankenhorn vibe. I already did a home brushed raw brash finish that is acquiring a nice patina, so the scar will fit in nicely

vntgbrslvr · 11-04-2009, 08:21 PM

Sweet...So how's it sound after the fix?

y-o-y · 11-04-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vntgbrslvr

Sweet...So how's it sound after the fix?

Sounds OK. Kinda has a dull ish. Not a lot of resonance...stark contrast to my Schilke X3!

vntgbrslvr · 11-04-2009, 10:10 PM

hmmmmmm.....Well I guess it's still better than a door stop.

y-o-y · 11-05-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vntgbrslvr

hmmmmmm.....Well I guess it's still better than a door stop.

Actually, I should be more clear. It is no more or less resonant then it was prior to the small soldering job on the bell. I suspect the general lack of resonance is due to the overall damage to the bell.

IMHO, it is not a bad thing, just different...it is definitely growing on me.

11-04-2009, 11:27 AM	#1
y-o-y New Friend Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: LBC Posts: 39	Can/should a bell be patched? I recently picked up an almost-free Besson 609 to use as a project/tinkering horn. At some point in the past, there was some serious damage done to the bell and it appears as though it got the accordian treatment as there is a crease/crimp all the way around, right about where the seam would be on a two piece bell (not sure if this bell is a one or two piece). When it was damaged and/or repaired, one small 4mm tear developed as well as a hole, smaller then a pin hole in close proximity. Can/should this be repaired? I think I read somewhere that the impact of damage on the performnace of a horn is diminished as you move from the leadpipe to the end of the bell. I don't know if I believe that, but if there is some truth to that generality, I would imagine this damage won't be a huge factor in the performance of the horn. At the same time, I don't think I have ever seen a bell with a patch in that location. Additionally, I am fearful of inserting any mutes for fear of exacerbating the damage. A new bell from Kanstul is $150...I could get the whole trumpet for that price on ebay, so unless I can find a busted up 609 with an intact bell, I don't think replacement is a cost effective option. Last edited by y-o-y; 11-04-2009 at 11:29 AM.

11-04-2009, 11:42 AM	#2
Dale Proctor Forte User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heart of Dixie Posts: 1,125	Re: Can/should a bell be patched? Is it something that could be soldered shut and buffed smooth? How thin is the metal in the repaired area? If it's really thin, a patch may be the only fix if you want to keep the bell. I've seen bell flares with patches, but I have no idea how they affected the playability of the horn. __________________ Olde Towne Brass www.otbrass.com Brass Band of Huntsville www.brassbandofhuntsville.org "Hit it hard and wish it well." - Claude Gordon

11-04-2009, 12:16 PM	#3
Mamba21500 Pianissimo User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 103	Re: Can/should a bell be patched? Well, you should take it to a brass repair workshop, and ask them, I'd imagine most people that are knowledgeable in that area on this forum need pics. If it is really bad, either scrap the horn, or replace the bell, I don't think a bell that is flat is reparable.

11-04-2009, 04:41 PM	#5
vntgbrslvr Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin Posts: 170	Re: Can/should a bell be patched? Take it to a decent brass repair shop...Splits can at times be silver soldered with success. Look at the second cornet down on this page. When you click on the before pics you will see a split in the bell. This was fixed by silver solder then gold plated after. It really depends on the location of the split, and the thickness of the brass. After it's fixed it may look like a real frankenhorn....scars and all.....but it might also make it stable. Brian __________________ Pan America Pea Shooter Conn Connquest 47 King Liberty Trumpet Bach Stratavarious (everyday horn) Yamaha TR-639 Rose bell 37 buescher Aristrocrat "custom built" Cornet Olds Studio (nickel plate) 57 conn 12A Coprion Holton Collegiate Cornet Conn Victor Cornet Conn 1914 Perfected wonder (C, B, A flat) Conn 1912 perfected wonder (C, B flat) Buescher 1903 Epoch Cornet 57 Olds Special Cornet Olds Ambassador Trumpet 1935 Mahillon Flugel Reynolds marching F

11-04-2009, 07:34 PM	#6
y-o-y New Friend Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: LBC Posts: 39	Re: Can/should a bell be patched? Thanks for the advice. I took it to my repair guy and he was able to solder the split with little difficulty. This is my "project" horn, so I welcome the scars and frankenhorn vibe. I already did a home brushed raw brash finish that is acquiring a nice patina, so the scar will fit in nicely

11-04-2009, 08:21 PM	#7
vntgbrslvr Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin Posts: 170	Re: Can/should a bell be patched? Sweet...So how's it sound after the fix? __________________ Pan America Pea Shooter Conn Connquest 47 King Liberty Trumpet Bach Stratavarious (everyday horn) Yamaha TR-639 Rose bell 37 buescher Aristrocrat "custom built" Cornet Olds Studio (nickel plate) 57 conn 12A Coprion Holton Collegiate Cornet Conn Victor Cornet Conn 1914 Perfected wonder (C, B, A flat) Conn 1912 perfected wonder (C, B flat) Buescher 1903 Epoch Cornet 57 Olds Special Cornet Olds Ambassador Trumpet 1935 Mahillon Flugel Reynolds marching F

11-04-2009, 10:10 PM	#9
vntgbrslvr Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin Posts: 170	Re: Can/should a bell be patched? hmmmmmm.....Well I guess it's still better than a door stop. __________________ Pan America Pea Shooter Conn Connquest 47 King Liberty Trumpet Bach Stratavarious (everyday horn) Yamaha TR-639 Rose bell 37 buescher Aristrocrat "custom built" Cornet Olds Studio (nickel plate) 57 conn 12A Coprion Holton Collegiate Cornet Conn Victor Cornet Conn 1914 Perfected wonder (C, B, A flat) Conn 1912 perfected wonder (C, B flat) Buescher 1903 Epoch Cornet 57 Olds Special Cornet Olds Ambassador Trumpet 1935 Mahillon Flugel Reynolds marching F

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