rowuk

I actually am in the market for a new C, and the Xeno really tickled my fancy. My 229H is not worth much anymore and I only use it 5-6 times a year. In Germany we play primarily Bb. Back in the 70s when I bought it, I went to Giardinellis and played 10 or so. The one I got was better than most back then. Like today, we really did not have much choice. After I came to Germany, I discovered how much of a lie the blending issue really was.
The reason that I kept it is because there are some contractors that do not accept anything else. Instead of trying to educate them, I take the money and run.
I need to keep an eye on the brand blind with money, which means I need to check out if I can even get away with a Xeno.....................
In any case, I do have a problem with the "one brand", "one sound" stand in the states. I see no reason to even promote "uniformity". Music is just too big to have a lead ball chained to its ankles.....
We do not have this problem in Germany, and what I hear is not worse than the sections abroad.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

ChopsGone

Three pages on just those two brands? What about a French Besson Classic? I've heard it even plays in tune, sort of a rare thing for a C. And Calicchio has a new C trumpet out. How big a deal would it be to have silvered stickers made up with the appropriate brand name, and just play the better horn in drag?

__________________
Vintage Olds and Reynolds, yes sir, yes sir, one gazoo full.

Calicchios, Besson, Kanstul Bessons, Selmers, etc.

F.E. forgive me, even a Bach Strad (but I like the others much better)

CHAMP

this is nothin'...check out the 11 page thread on vintage vs. modern...

__________________
POW!!!

Brass crusader

I've played both of these horns, and I liked them both quite a bit. I preferred the Yamaha for solo and chamber work, and it also works great in a section. However, I recently played the Bach "Philadelphia" model C....what a great horn!

__________________
Yamaha Xeno Custom w/ reverse leadpipe
Conn "Vintage One" C tpt, raw brass prototype
'47 Olds Super Recording tpt
'47 Olds Special tpt
'52 Olds Ambassador cornet
'67 Olds Special cornet
70's Yamaha 631 Flugel w/ Rose brass bell
70's Conn 17b Coprion director
'29 Martin Handcraft "The New Master"
'35 Conn 22B NY Symphony Special tpt
'83 Callet New York Super Large Bore tpt.
'35 Conn 32H tbone
'60's Couesnon Flugel
'70 Bach Stradivarius 37 in lacquer
Kanstul French Besson
Courtois 4-valve picc

robertswil4

I own the Bach, and am very pleased with it. I was worried at first since Bach has an inconsistent reputation, but I got a great horn! It has a very even blow and plays open like a Bb. Projection is like nothing I've ever heard, and I can easily change timbre. I'm particularly impressed with the horn's response to articulation. The only issue I have is intonation in the A and Bb above the staff, both of which are sharp. I'm really not concerned with the technicalities of an instrument. I think that as long as I'm playing the right way, the horn's peculiarities will be figured out.

I've tried the Yamaha, but I didn't like the sound. It didn't "spin." (sorry, I can't think of a better word). And it helps that the Bach is a significantly cheaper horn!

I probably got lucky, but I like the Bach.

65Strad

I think that the two are great horns period. I got the Bach and find it for me has a much better sound than the Yamaha Chicago. Again for me, much more resonant and rich, but not quite a easy to play but close to the Yamaha. I don't think I was very lucky finding this horn as just about every one (Bach Chicago or Philly) I played had possesed (for me) that great sound. Mark Ridenour of the CSO plays his Bach all of the time for C trumpet and Chris Martin plays and old Bach C with a Malone pipe he got from John Hagstrom about as much as the Yamaha.

I live near Dillon music so I get a change to try plenty of horns. Not many that have a similar opportunity to and do try playing Bach, 229H's, Chicago's etc. or Bb's find the legend of Bach quality inconsistencies to be much more than remembering the fairly distant past since Tedd i Waggoner is control at the helm now.

Another old thread relating to this thread regarding feedback of the Chicago C's with over 100 opinions.

Forum: trumpetherald.com

__________________
Tom D'Antoni


'65 Bach 181 37 SN#30836 Brand New
'66 Bach 180 37 SN#39773 Brand New
'69 Bach 181 37 SN#58831 Raw Brass
'72 Bach 180S 43 SN#70503 1st Valve Trigger
'05 Bach VBS 196 SN# 560142 A/Bb Piccolo
'07 Bach Chicago C SN#656602

Trumpet Dad

Here is an interesting article about the resurrection of the Bach Chicago C. It would appear that the author Roy Hempley, and Conn-Selmer were trying as much as possible to reproduce (clone) the original trumpets sold to the CSO and not just "a concept in sound". Bachology - Resurrection of A Chicago C

Those used to a 229H may feel the Chicago to be a bit tight partly because--to be true to the original design--the mouthpipe is not quite as large as a modern 25H (although it much larger than the 1947 or 1954 #25). This is explained in the article.

I just purchased a brand new "blemished" Bach Chicago C for $1100 for my son. Something I would otherwise be unable to afford. I had his teacher play test it. Although there was nothing wrong with the horn (good intonation, fantastic upper register), he did not like it. He said the notes below the staff were a bit tight. The guy is really picky. Of course he makes his living from his C trumpet and was comparing it to his 229 with Najoom leadpipe.

He sent me to a colleague of his for a second opinion who also said it was a little tight (he also uses a 229 with Najoom pipe), but he said he would consider buying a Bach Chicago as a second C trumpet. Interestingly he told me that a lot of the Yamaha Chicago C players were now switching back to Bach. Is that true EC?

rowuk

Not anybody that I know even thinks about Bach once they have a Yamaha. Perfect manufacturing, smooth and consistent blow and essentially perfect intonation are really strong arguments. This is one of those myths that will continue to pop up from the brand blind.

I consider an AB test of trumpets to be unfair. We are creatures of habit and what is "tight" today will be "much more efficient" tomorrow. We need time to get used to any differences and then judge.

If a lot of players were switching, there would be a ton of used instruments out there. I don't see them anywhere. There is not even one on ebay or craigslist.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

jcstites

I disagree, I know lots of people that think about Bach that play on Yamahas. What do they think about? The sound. What keeps them from going back? Intonation, response, and evenness of sound.

__________________
www.jonathanstites.com

Johntpt

Right now there's a lot of Yamaha Artist Seriers C trumpets for sale. 3 Chicagos on Trumpetherald, 2 Chicagos on Horntrader, one NY on Dillon's, and a Chicago on Ebay, most priced at least $1000 less than a new one. I too have heard of several well known pros who have recently started playing Bach again.