maynardthe2nd

I'm looking to get a new trumpet and having quite a delima. First of all, I own an old 1971 Conn intermediate trumpet that plays very well... for a 30 year old student trumpet. I like Conn, I've played several other conn horns and I like them alot, just the feel. I fell in love with the Connstellation the first time I saw it, but began to fall toward the Vintage 1 for it's many costamizations I could get on it. The only problem is, the music store in town and pretty much in the state doesn't stock those two, but they can order it. But I know that a trumpet has to "warm up" to me just like I warm up to it. So i looked on to the B&S challenger II, which they carry in stock. What should i do? Does the B&S offer the same quality as these two other horns?

Fudleysmith

I haven't played the Challenger II, but I own a Vintage One and side-by-side compared it to a 1971 CONNstellation prior to buying the VI.

I have a problem with a bright, edgy sound; even with an GR MX cup mouthpiece. The CONNstellation really exacerbated the bright problem compared to the Rose Brass V1. For marching or a lead horn, the CONNstellation could work for me, but to blend in a section or for concert band, or mic'ed, the VI is the ticket.

As an engineer, I also like the opportunity to modify the slides, valve cap weights. I had to make a firm rule for myself. only change ONE item and then live with it for two weeks before deciding if it was an improvement. After about 6 months of experimenting, I have a setup that I can recognize by response, even in a blind test with someone else modifying the horn and handing it to me.

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Fudleysmith

Conn V1 Rose brass bell
GR 65M #1bb

Conn V1 Flugel (Satin Silver)
GR 65FD

Conn 8DRS
Lawson S670/P10G 705

rowuk

MT2,
you can't compare them. They all do different things that makes them desirable.
The B&S is a Bach clone-a much different concept than the Connstellation or Vintage 1.
You will have to make your mind up on this one!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

gglassmeyer

I chose the Vintage 1 (1BR-46 Laquered Rose brass bell #46 leadpipe) over a very nice Bach 180-37 that I liked a lot. Initially I favored the Bach, but then I switched out the "D" shaped tuning slide for the rounded slide on the Conn and that made the difference to me. Loosing the resistance in the tuning slide gives the horn a much more open feel. I don't really play around with the valve weighting system. I removed the standard bottom caps and put the 1st set of weighted caps on. Adding additional weight to these didn't do anything for me, but others have different setups. The only time I'd want the original caps would be if I wanted a more light weight horn feel, which I don't care about since I have a lightweight Yamaha horn in my case.
A few of my Bach playing friends have ordered rounded slides for their Bachs and been glad they did. The Conn comes with the slide option standard.

One thing I will say is that when I was at the store trying out horns, the first V1 that they had there had an issue with the mouthpiece receiver. My mouthpiece, Schilke 15C4, wouldn't seat properly as it was hitting the leader pipe. My trumpet that I purchased had a defect with the small section of the 3rd valve slide (used to empty accumulated condensation a.k.a "spit") where it fit way too snug. I didn't realize this until after I got it home and started to clean it. It wasn't a big deal to fix, but leads me to believe quality control isn't that great.
Bottom line is don't buy a vintage one unless you've played it and examined it. That said I love the sound and even after 2 years, I still love the thing.
I did play test a B&S Challenger II once, but not side by side with the Conn. I wasn't disappointed with the horn at all. I played wery well, good intonation, and seemed very well made.
I did play the Connstellation a few years ago, but for me too bright sounding. Would be great on a football field for marching band or if your soloing and don't need to blend with a section.

Good luck in your quest. You may want to combine a vacation with a trumpet safari. I you're already planning to vacation somewhere that's likely to have a better selection why not spend a day shopping for horns.

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Greg Glassmeyer

maynardthe2nd

Yeah, i've heard said that the Connstellation is built for a lead trumpet in a jazz or marching band. In the basketball pepband im in now, I always take things up in octive, and it sounds really cool, and i'll prolly do it in hi school next year, which in a way calls for that kind of sound. The problem is, i don't blend very well, so for concert band, i wouldn't need something making it worse, and I can get the lead sound without a trumpet "made" for it, so I guess the Constellation is out.
I've heard lots of good things about the V1, and i've heard everyone say that B&S blows bach outta the water(plus I hate bach, everyone has them). I'm a range player, so which of those would best fit to me?

rowuk

mt2,
hate is a very strong word! The fact that B&S Bb are not standard fare in orchestras and jazz bands prove that they do not "generally" blow Bach out of the water.

If you look at the successful lead players out there, you find just about every name brand horn out there being used (except B&S - I couldn't find any big lead players using them). What I mean to say is even if you do specialize in high notes and can get away with it, just about every brand of horn is OK. You will just have to try out a bunch of stuff like the rest of us. Just do not do something stupid like ruling out a brand for whatever reason. An intelligent decision requires intellect not hearsay!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

gglassmeyer

I agree that going into a new horn selection with your mind made up about Bach (or any other manufacturer) is not healthy. Bach horns are very nice and they make many different combinations to suite different needs. They have lightweight versions different bell and leadpipe combos etc... There's no reason not to consider them. I think for most folks it's relatively easy to get your hands on Yamaha and Bach horns. Here in the USA most folks can get their hands on the Conn, King, Benge, Getzen very easily. It's a bit tougher to find Kanstul, Schilke, Stomvi, or any of the more custom horns.
I know that Woodwind and Brasswind used to have a program where you could have them ship up to 3 instruments to try out (you might have to foot the shipping for all but one if you purchase one). I don't know if they still do this and if it's only in the USA. Most pro level horns are fine instruments, it all comes down to personal preferences, how much money you've got and the value you place on a horn.

Play as many different horns as possible.

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Greg Glassmeyer

Mark Bradley

All three are fine horns and I've played and/or owned all three. The obvious answer of course is to try and play them and see what you like. A couple of alternatives however: It was me I'd check out the Sonare along with the Challenger II-- a B&S with a Blackburn leadpipe. Also if you like the Connie the Kanstul "Maraichi" is an an exact copy of Snooky Young's old Connie. Chances are you'd have lot fewer "issues" than buying some old Connie 40+ years old with shot valves, loose compression, abused by some 5th grader, etc. The Maraichi is a unique playing horn-- 437 bore with a big bell. A blast to play but it's like catfish, people tend to really like it or not care for it at all.

Kanstul Mariachi Trumpet - MAR991

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tatakata

Vintage One is a really good horn. And I've played some new BS horns and they play very well. A "Bach Killer" Try them all.

JerryD

I play in a big band with 5 trumpets.
Two of the horns are Connie 38B's - absolutely fantastic sound.
I have been trying to buy a used one now for 4 months.
They have that big, broad intonation, great valves and even, well centered tone.
I have been playing for about 35 years, and have played mostly Olds, Benge and Selmer
all of which are very good horns.
Presently playing a large bore K-Mod, which again is a very fine trumpet, but no match for the 38B.
The 38B is a remarkable instrument.

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"All the Best"
Jerry Donato
Sun City West, Arizona