Martin Williams

Ive been told and from what ive been able to see the Yamaha 6310Z is more or less a copy of the Couesnon Flugelhorn

I was just wondering how similar are they really? What are the differences? Is the Couesnon replaceable with the Yamaha?

gchun

First off, I have owned both. I have sold the Cousnon and still have the Z.

The Z uses a standard shank mouthpiece. The Cousnon uses a straight shank, or French taper. I had trouble finding French taper mouthpieces for the Cousnon that worked, so that may have been part of the problem. The horn had a great sound, but the response was uneven (even with the one french taper mpc I had). Pitch was little off, but still very workable.

The Z has very even response. It played well from day one, and it plays even better once I stopped overblowing it. It doesn't need a lot of air to fill the horn. The horn projects well, and it still responds beautifully at soft volumes. Pitch is very good. One problem I have is with the valves. If I use it everyday, everything is fine. But, if I don't, the valves stick. It just takes a little time to get them going.

I've owned a bunch of flugels. The progression is

Yamaha 631 in lacquer
Cousnon in lacquer
Yamaha 635 in silver
Yamaha Z in lacquer

The 635 was close to the Cousnon. The Z is even closer to it. Much more responsive and plays with less effort.

The Z is a perfect fit for me. My point of reference for flugel sound is a very light, nimble sound, (ala Guido Basso, etc.) This horn is perfect for that. I don't care for the huge, tubby flugel sound.

Hope this helps,
Garry

dallemand

Thanks for the info on the Z, from your respooonse it looks like I'll be caressing the 631OZ for quite some time. I played a few toons on the one I am looking at and it did blow easy and sounded better than I expected. Thanks again.

regards

dallemand

ShaneChalke

I have a late 60s Couesnon. Yes, the intonation could be better, but the sound is glorious -- velvety, smokey, outstanding for jazz. I had the French taper leadpipe modified to a standard taper by a repair shop for about $25. Don't let the French taper stop you! You can also buy standard taper leadpipes for Couesnon from Charlie's Brass Works.

Cheers.

--Shane

RGood

I have a 6310Z also - and found that a lightweight valve oil solves the sticky valve issue - I'm using Hetman Synthetic Light Piston - I'm sure other light oils would work well too - but the regular stuff just gummed up on me really quickly. I agree with you on the sound - and ease of playing the Z.

Bob

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It's a new year - let's have at it!!!

Kanstul 1525 Flugel
Yamaha Bobby Shew 6310Z Flugel
1967 Getzen Eterna (my 2nd - still going strong after all these years)
1961 Olds Special (my 1st...battered, bruised, & passed around but back home)

rowuk

Whover told you that forgot to tell you that Yamaha NEVER has cloned anything. The instruments may "look" like other designs, but that is where the similarity stops. A Couesnon has NEVER been put together as well as any Yamaha, you will NEVER find two Couesnons that play even close to the same.

I am not trashing Couesnon, Yamaha is just in another technical league. As far as the sound goes, the Yamaha is not as "intimate".

There are many lovers of "historic" or "vintage" instruments here - I am one of them, but at the end of the day, you get lucky with an old horn. Yamaha is not luck, it is skill.

Play before you pay - unless you are only collecting!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Martin Williams

For what its worth, I've since sold my Cousenon and I play a 6310Z mostly for jazz work, and also a Getzen Eterna (three valve) for band work. Love them both!