Dan Millheim

Oh man, not another thread about this craziness you say...

Well,I would like to jump into this subject and the ensuing controversy-even though it seems to have been put to "bed" on this forum of late. So here goes, like it or not:

Being a professional musician and professing trumpet "gear head," I have poured over the research related to cryo freezing brass instruments for well over two years without taking action one way or another. I tried to be objective in reading material both pro and con concerning anything related to this subject. I have even contacted various well respected builders and to a person they all claim their instruments were design "stress free" and cryo treatments would have little or no effect. While I greatly respect their views, what else might one expect to hear? "Yup, I stress the fool out of my horns when I make them" ha. So, other then shell out the dollars to see for myself I shelved the idea... that is until something interesting happened.

My other obsession, and I have to pick them very carefully because I am a bit fanatical (ha), is that I am also an audio/videophile "gear head." Why? Well, if art can be define as "making better" then perfecting better tools that one uses to develop their life long craft drives this obsesson for me.

Anyway, these two passions are actually very compatible...I enjoying playing live music and so it would be logical that I would also enjoy listening/watching music/movies when I am not playing.

In my study of high end audio/video equipment I discovered MANY manufactures in the audio field that unashamedly use cryo freezing of various components and cables with claims that it greatly improves equipment quality, clarity and sound transfer, hmmmm.

To qualify this statement: yes, there are very vocal critics that claim it is "bunk" just as in the instrument field but it seems there are more high end cable/component makers that cryo their products as an acceptable practice or badge, if you will, of true high end quality.

So, the whole cryo interest "thing" came off the "back burner" and got me thinking again. Long story short I found a company in the DFW (Texas) area that had a computerized controlled cryo tank they used for audio cables and component parts so I called them up. I talked with the owner about my interests and after listening to his claims and reviewing his client base from around the world, I arranged to have some cables sent for "freezing" to experiment (less then 50 bucks for everything I sent).

Well, all I can say is WOW these things sound amazing! I mean the detail and clarity is remarkable! In my further conversations I told the owner of this cryo company that I was a trumpet player and he told me one of his clients was a famous (these were his words) manufacturer of mouthpieces! He told me he had an agreement that he could not divulge their name....more, hmmm? This client claimed it had a great effect on their mouthpieces! Who the heck makes mouthpieces that are cryo'd? I've not heard of them and why would they keep this a secret? Weird?

This got me thinking again about a whole trumpet. The Cryo company owner stated that his state-of-the-art equipment could easily AND safely do a whole instrument but he had never done it before. Well folks, we are about to try!

He has offered to do both my horns (the twins) free of charge in Jan. Now remember, this is a major cryo company with high end gear not a Mom and Pop operation. I am going to go to their company and document the process with pictures and a full review. Tell me I am crazy but dogon I have to experience this for myself and put the issue to test. Please don't quote all the tired research, I have read it all. I am not wasting any money so what do I have to loose. Dangerous you say? Well, again it is a controlled environment and I have never read of damage to an instrument in any of my findings. Besides, the delicate electronics I just got back in perfect working order are far more delicate.

Well, that's all for now. I will keep you all posted. Let the controversy begin. I can only imagine the "What Have We Wrought" thread guy (ha) shaking his head ...hey, like I said, I am a "gear head". IF this free treatment ages my new horns like my beloved 25 year mellowed Schilke, I will be the one shaking my head. Till Jan.....

tpter1

I dunno... I think I just got a zing?? I dunno... Well, I guess I am convinced I don't need to stick my horn in an ultra-cold freezer to play the way I want it to. That's ok by me. I mean, lots of real greats never had their horn cryoed, so if it works for them, why should that not be good enough for me?

Solar Bell

Don't give him the cold shoulder Glenn...

-cw-

tpter1

Yeah...that would be frigid...

NYTC

Dan,
Go for it.
Make sure you record your self before and after.

Felix

Dan Millheim

Tpter1: Yes, a Zing, but a friendly one...

Felix: I failed to mention that I too would be cryo'd with the horns as part of the experiment. I just hope they thaw me out in this life time ha.

rowuk

One thing that will change for sure is the "temper (hardness/resilience)" of the brass. While this may make sense on the bell or tubing, changing this on the braces (which on many great instruments are not machined or stamped, but forged for more temper) will change things, but not necessarily in the way that the original designer/manufacturer wanted. With audio cables, we have no desired mechanical transfer of vibration, but the braces on a pro trumpet are critically placed to move or disappate energy.

Try to get a good recording before and after of your horn with the microphone up close to the bell to limit room influence, AND capture the complete harmonic structure. Derek Reaban used the audio freeware Audacity to get spectrum plots. Even although we may "hear" something, it may or may not be evident in the spectral analysis. I'll be watching for results for sure. I am very sceptical though.

Veldkamp

I have had a Bach Sterling that had a Cryo freeze modification. It played very well, open. It was one of the best (new) Bachs I have played.

Some of my colleagues did the same treatment with their horns and were very pleased with the result. Also a saxophone player had his saxophones and flute freezed and was pleased with the result.

Walter

Will the freezing affect the laquer/finish of your horn?......Also you have got me wondering who the mouthpiece manufacturer is....if the process works perhaps you should try the mouthpiece on it's own first?

Walter

Veldkamp

The freezing will not effect the lacquer. I don't think you will notice much difference in freezing the mpc.

They told me the freezig has only effect on newer horns, the older horns (25+) have already had the natural way of the aging proces.