flugelgirl

Very cool! I love seeing the progress! I always wish I could play the finished product :)

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Brekelefuw

It's that time again!

This weekend I worked on the front and rear bell-leadpipe braces. I ended up finishing the front one for the most part.


My first task was the make sure the trumpet was aligned. When I put the bell on a few weeks ago it was slanted down a little bit, so this week I raised the bell.
The next step is to align the leadpipe. The things to look out for when doing this are 1. whether or not the center line of the leadpipe runs parallel to the center line of the bell from the side, and top views. And 2. Does the main tuning slide work when you have it aligned. To align it, I put the MTS on the horn and rotated the leadpipe on to the braces that were already attached to the valve block (this is a special case becuase of the Olds ballast braces)
Because I reversed the tuning slide while the leadpipe was off the horn, it was very out of alignment, so I had to resolder the MTS once I was sure that it was parallel with itself. Then I heated up the leadpipe portion of the MTS so it set in place. In this case, the MTS is used as the master to determine the alignment of the leadpipe. If the lower parts of the MTS and MTS crook are aligned correctly, it is just a matter of using that to hold the leadpipe in position for soldering.



You can see that the bell and leadpipe are aligned now.

Next, I took my white card and cut it up so I could draw new brace designs.



The designs were labelled and traced on to my thick brass sheet that I made the bell brace out of.

When placing braces, it is important where they go. If they are misplaced, notes can become stuffy and the horn becomes dead sounding. To find out the best places to put the braces I took a steel mandrel that I made on the lathe and run it up and down the length of the leadpipe and bell to feel for vibrations. I mark where there are no vibrations. This horn was very hard to find these spots, so once I get all my bracing made, I might end up with a dead horn. As of now, I am guessing on the placement. My Chinese horn on the other hand was incredibly easy to feel the vibrations.


You can see my steel mandrel on the bottom left of the picture. I made it to take dents out of bell stems when the bell is off the horn, as well as tuning slides and any other tubing that is long. It works great. I also threaded a hole in the tip so I can attach dent balls to it if I want a larger surface area to work on. Other dent rods are thin and bend. This steel mandrel I made is about 1/3 of an inch thick. It doesn't bend easily.

After some time cutting and filing and sanding and buffing, my front brace was ready to be fit to the horn. I used a soldering jig to hold the brace in position while I soldered it. I don't have any pictures of the jig because I was concentrating too much on the job at hand.

Here is the horn with the new brace. I still have to do some cleanup, but my shop was closing so I had to leave.





I think I am going to fill the little gap in the center of the brace with a copper insert. Or, I will refit the brace so there is less of a gap at the ballast end of it. The reverse tuning slide makes it hard to put a brace in because there is very little room on the leadpipe side of the horn.



Well, that's it for this week. Next week I will finish up the front brace and do the rear brace. I might also get back to working on my friend's trombone that was run over by a car!

ps. The horn plays nicely. It has a rich dark sound, but it doesn't respond as well as my Schilke or Bach 37 in the upper register (above high D) I wouldn't use this horn for lead playing, so I am not too worried about the extreme registers. All the good music happens lower than that. Below the staff is nice and full and the low f# is quite fat.

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Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley

nordlandstrompet

Interesting and very nice job so far!

As most of us other here at TM are novises when it comes to building a trumpet,
there is one operation that is a bit confusing (at least for me) and that actual operation
is how to find the right place to attach the braces.

I think I have understood it right when I say that the nodes (the dead points)
are "changing placement" depending of frequency.

So; my zillion dollar question is: which note(s) is used to find the right spot for the braces?

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BrassOnLine

Nice job !!!

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Brekelefuw

I am not actually sure what the correct answer is. When I tested I played Low C and C in the staff, as well as the 2nd line G.
I think that is you tested every note, the contact points for the braces would be incredibly small because the nodal points shift with the frequency played. I'm guessing that it is more about finding an 'average' of the dead zones.

__________________
Schilke B3L
Schilke XA1
Bach 37 180 ML
Chinese custom horn
Yamaha 6310G
Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley

nordlandstrompet

I think you are pretty close when you are guessing about finding an "average" point of the placement.

I've heard someone say something like this: "The braces are placed
somewhere in the middle between the nodal points. You can't go very wrong with that".
I also got the impression that the closer to the bell the brace is placed, the more
the sound is "dampened" (darkened?) and brightens up the closer to the valvecluster
it is placed.

NickD has some very informative videos about a lot of things on his
youtube channel, also about nodes and anti nodes.

Interesting stuff, especially for an amateur like me:

YouTube - nickdrozdoff's Channel

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roarmp.com

"When you play an Andante, people have to cry..." Maurice Andrè


Olds Recording
Yamaha 731S cornet
Conn V1 flugel

rowuk

I think we need to consider that the functions of the braces can be different. They can transmit vibrations from one part of the horn to another or dampen vibrations where they occur.

My opinion is that the front and rear bell braces transmit and the middle brace soldered to the valve cluster damps.

On the Monette site they talk about the new Prana3 with a double brace between the 1st and 3rd valves and the leadpipe as well as a much thicker rear bell brace. I can attest that that horn is VERY responsive.

I also believe that the main difference between a horn with and without a reverse leadpipe is where the front brace is located.

Finding the right place is part of what makes an artisan an artisan and what makes Yamaha so special. They can mass produce the right brace locations for their horns (the locations vary with model). I also suspect that the bracing was the main issue for Bach "inconsistencies" in the past. The rest of the tolerances were reasonably low. There is a company in Switzerland that rebuilds Bachs and ALL of those horns that I have played are superior to the stock models.

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Brekelefuw

Thanks for this insight. This idea never occurred to me. It does make sense though. If you look at the new Edwards horns, they have an adjustable wheel that presses on the valve casing so you can adjust the feedback of the horn by connecting it to the casing or backing it away from the casing.

__________________
Schilke B3L
Schilke XA1
Bach 37 180 ML
Chinese custom horn
Yamaha 6310G
Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley

rowuk

Brek,
there are horn players here in Germany that put an eraser at a certain location on the leadpipe of an Alexander horn. They also experimented putting a brace there with much worse results.

I have experimented with a sound post after removing the front brace of a C trumpet and never was completely happy. I am having my Bach 229H CL modified (again) to give it a tuning bell but keep all of the original bracing. I will also experiment with different types of bracing once this stage is finished and I am happy.

My idea of the valve block brace damping has to do with the fact that our hands are wrapped around it. Flesh and blood are pretty good dampers.

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Brekelefuw

I wonder how much consideration horn builders give to the way a player holds the horn. Depending on the way you hold the trumpet, you could affect the way the horn resonates.

I know lately I have been playing cornet a lot and I find my left hand cramps after a period of time holding it like i hold my trumpet. I have been putting my left pointer finger over the bell to compensate, and I am sure that affects the way it plays a bit.

__________________
Schilke B3L
Schilke XA1
Bach 37 180 ML
Chinese custom horn
Yamaha 6310G
Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley