Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5

Brekelefuw · 10-11-2009, 11:15 AM

Hello everyone,
You may remember my previous custom trumpet projects located here: http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f139...avy-38577.html (The $50 Trumpet Experiment [Image Heavy]) (the trumpet changes to a new design near the end of the thread) and here: http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f139...dor-40857.html (Custom Trumpet Project #2: Olds Ambassador [image heavy])

Well, after almost a year of doing other things (I work as a brass tech, as well as fixing up a few cornets and a friends trombone that was run over by a car on the weekends) I finally have decided to get back to modifying trumpets.

The trumpet I am going to use is the Olds Ambassador that is seen in the 2nd thread linked above. I never finished that one, so it is a perfect specimen to work on. The history on how I got the trumpet (and enormous thanks to that person) are in that thread.

I had many ideas for designs on this one. I was heavily leaning towards an art deco-like theme, but after doing a bunch of research, I don't think I have enough knowledge about that style to really get the concept right.

Here are some pictures of it disassembled before I started work on it:

The first thing I did to the horn is gave it a reverse tuning slide.

I shouldn't have taken the whole leadpipe off to do this, but I was excited and did it anyways:

Original Slide and Leadpipe design

Next step: Remove upper inner MTS slide and ferrule.

Also removed leadpipe upper outer MTS slide tube

Buff the items. They had tarnished a bit since they are raw brass. Dirt prevents solder from flowing, so clean parts are a must.

To get the best fit possible (and reduce the 'steps' on the inside of the tubing) these tools are used. The large steel plate is a tube shrinking dye and the other one is a tube expander.

After fitting comes soldering. The parts were aligned on the trumpet, but I can't take pictures while I solder and align. Crooked fitting would make the slide jam. On a trumpet, everything needs to be parallel in order for slides to work properly.

Next up: the bell comes off.

Brekelefuw · 10-11-2009, 11:29 AM

The bell:

I removed the bell. I left the ballast braces on (those fancy braces around the valve casing on Ambassadors) so later on when I put the trumept back together I have a guide to align the bell and leadpipe by. I haven't decided whether they will stay on the horn when completely finished though.

I traced the crook on to some card paper so I could draw some designs to see how I wanted that part of the horn to look. I am a terrible visual artist, and the designs might not make sense to you from the picture. I have both 32 and 64 guage copper and brass sheet to work with, and this time I plan to use a two tone design on the bell crook brace.

I picked a design that I didn't intend to use initially. I don't know why I chose that one, but I can always change that later if I can't find an overall theme that suits it. I cut out the design so I could trace it on to the brass sheet. I picked card stock because the stiffness makes it easier to work with as a template.

Here is the design traced on to the brass sheet. It is 32 guage. Quite thick.

Before I do any more work on the brace, I have to get the bell crook dent free (or as close to it as I can) and aligned so the center of the bell stem runs parallel with the center line of the bell flare.

After I aligned the bell I soldered a peice of brass on to keep it aligned while I took dents out of the crook. When working on a bell crook, the curvature of the crook will start to open up and look like Dizzy's bell. The brass rod prevents this from happening.

That is all I have done for now. It is Thanksgiving here, so I chose to spend the day with family instead in the 'brass cave' I work in. I also need to buy a new jeweller's saw so I can cut the thick brass. My Dremel tool wasn't working well, even with my new Tungsten-Carbide bit.

MJ · 10-11-2009, 06:15 PM

Very nice write up!

vntgbrslvr · 10-11-2009, 07:09 PM

Looks great.....Keep us up to date (I'm jealous of your shrinking die....gotta get me one of those one of these days).

rowuk · 10-12-2009, 05:13 PM

Brek,
like always very COOL.

Indian · 10-12-2009, 06:05 PM

Very nice job on the reverse tuning slide and leadpipe !!!

y-o-y · 10-12-2009, 06:27 PM

This thread is full of win

You mention that you aren't a great visual artist...do you have friends that are more skilled in this area? if so, this would be a great opportunity to collaborate and get some ideas to use with your experiments.

Brekelefuw · 10-12-2009, 08:57 PM

I do have visual artist friends. I guess I never thought of asking them to help me. I am going to have to look in to that.

Brekelefuw · 10-18-2009, 05:05 PM

Here is a bit of an update.
I worked for about 45 minutes on the bell bow design today. I spent the other 3 hours working on my other side project, a friend's trombone that was run over by a car. (It is a huge job, and may not end up working out. I can do a writeup of that one if there are enough people interested.)

I used a small hacksaw and a dremel to cut the rough shape of the brace out of hte large brass sheet I bought.

Then I used my dremel tool with a sanding drum attachment to bring the peice down closer to the outline that I drew. The outline is still oversized because I have to be very cautious when making my final cuts. I don't want to mess up and make the brace too small to fit in the crook.

After I got it to the shape of the outline I buffed the peice up to get all the scratches and crud off of the brass that came on it when I bought it.
The other reason I buff it is because it smoothes the edges that get rough when sanding and cutting. I wouldn't want to pick up my horn when it is done and cut myself on a burr or sharp edge!

I took this one to show you how shiny I got it. You can see my reflection (me holding my phone camera) in the brass.

Finally, I placed the brace on the block of wood and placed the bell over top and retraced the outline of the crook to give myself a better idea of the dimensions I need to take the brass down to next time I work on it.

The reason I used a block of wood is because the bell is tapered and if I traced the outline on the brass and the bell wasn't flush with the brass, my outline would be off and I could ruin my peice.

Short update, but an update none the less. I may be in next weekend to work on it if I don't have a gig (although I do hope I have a gig because playing is my first love when it comes to trumpets)

Brekelefuw · 11-02-2009, 11:40 PM

Yet another update.

I went in to work this weekend to finish up shaping the bell bow brace. I didn't take shots of that because in my last post I explained the process. This time, instead of a dremel, I used a hand file so I could have more accuracy.

Here is the brace after I soldered it in (which was a huge pain to align) and scratched the area after cleaning up any extra solder at the joint. The fit is pretty good. There is a little gap at the top of the brace, but I don't think it detracts from the overall aesthetic.

I may do a bit of work by hand on the slope of the curve to make it a bit more 'slope-y'

After I installed the brace, I did a rough fitting of it on the horn. Olds Ambassadors have two braces around the valve casing called "Ballast Braces" which attach to the leadpie, valves and bell. I needed to do a rough fitting so I could get the ballast braces aligned with the bell. That will make it easier to fit the leadpipe on when I get to that stage.

If you look at the bell in relation to the 3rd valve and lower main tuning slides, you can see that it is sloped a bit downwards. When I work on it next I will heat the ballast braces and the bell stem until the solder gets pliable and shift the bell up a fraction of an inch so that the center-line of the bell flare runs parallel with the center-line of the bottom slides.

That's all for tonight. I will be back in to work on the horn in two weeks because this weekend is my mother's birthday.

10-11-2009, 11:15 AM	#1
Brekelefuw Forte User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,656	Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 Hello everyone, You may remember my previous custom trumpet projects located here: http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f139...avy-38577.html (The $50 Trumpet Experiment [Image Heavy]) (the trumpet changes to a new design near the end of the thread) and here: http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f139...dor-40857.html (Custom Trumpet Project #2: Olds Ambassador [image heavy]) Well, after almost a year of doing other things (I work as a brass tech, as well as fixing up a few cornets and a friends trombone that was run over by a car on the weekends) I finally have decided to get back to modifying trumpets. The trumpet I am going to use is the Olds Ambassador that is seen in the 2nd thread linked above. I never finished that one, so it is a perfect specimen to work on. The history on how I got the trumpet (and enormous thanks to that person) are in that thread. I had many ideas for designs on this one. I was heavily leaning towards an art deco-like theme, but after doing a bunch of research, I don't think I have enough knowledge about that style to really get the concept right. Here are some pictures of it disassembled before I started work on it: The first thing I did to the horn is gave it a reverse tuning slide. I shouldn't have taken the whole leadpipe off to do this, but I was excited and did it anyways: Original Slide and Leadpipe design Next step: Remove upper inner MTS slide and ferrule. Also removed leadpipe upper outer MTS slide tube Buff the items. They had tarnished a bit since they are raw brass. Dirt prevents solder from flowing, so clean parts are a must. To get the best fit possible (and reduce the 'steps' on the inside of the tubing) these tools are used. The large steel plate is a tube shrinking dye and the other one is a tube expander. After fitting comes soldering. The parts were aligned on the trumpet, but I can't take pictures while I solder and align. Crooked fitting would make the slide jam. On a trumpet, everything needs to be parallel in order for slides to work properly. Next up: the bell comes off. __________________ Schilke B3L Schilke XA1 Bach 37 180 ML Chinese custom horn Yamaha 6310G Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley

10-11-2009, 06:15 PM	#3
MJ Forte User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naptown Posts: 2,429	Re: Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 Very nice write up! __________________

10-11-2009, 07:09 PM	#4
vntgbrslvr Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin Posts: 196	Re: Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 Looks great.....Keep us up to date (I'm jealous of your shrinking die....gotta get me one of those one of these days). __________________ Pan America Pea Shooter Conn Connquest 47 King Liberty Trumpet Bach Stratavarious (everyday horn) Yamaha TR-639 Rose bell 37 buescher Aristrocrat "custom built" Cornet Olds Studio (nickel plate) 57 conn 12A Coprion Holton Collegiate Cornet Conn Victor Cornet Conn 1914 Perfected wonder (C, B, A flat) Conn 1912 perfected wonder (C, B flat) Buescher 1903 Epoch Cornet 57 Olds Special Cornet Olds Ambassador Trumpet 1935 Mahillon Flugel Reynolds marching F

10-12-2009, 05:13 PM	#5
rowuk Moderator Utimate User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 7,827	Re: Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 Brek, like always very COOL. __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

10-12-2009, 06:05 PM	#6
Indian Piano User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 277	Re: Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 Very nice job on the reverse tuning slide and leadpipe !!! __________________ Rob, King Liberty SilverTone (3) King Liberty (7) Super 20 (2) Conn Vocabell 40A - 40B - 80A (6) - 81A (1) - 38A Victor (2) - 22B - 16B, 12B Coprion bell Getzen Tone Balanced Super Deluxe Holton French LeBlanc (1) - Al Hirt 550 Olds Studio (1) - Special (1)

10-11-2009, 11:29 AM	#2
Brekelefuw Forte User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,656	Re: Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 The bell: I removed the bell. I left the ballast braces on (those fancy braces around the valve casing on Ambassadors) so later on when I put the trumept back together I have a guide to align the bell and leadpipe by. I haven't decided whether they will stay on the horn when completely finished though. I traced the crook on to some card paper so I could draw some designs to see how I wanted that part of the horn to look. I am a terrible visual artist, and the designs might not make sense to you from the picture. I have both 32 and 64 guage copper and brass sheet to work with, and this time I plan to use a two tone design on the bell crook brace. I picked a design that I didn't intend to use initially. I don't know why I chose that one, but I can always change that later if I can't find an overall theme that suits it. I cut out the design so I could trace it on to the brass sheet. I picked card stock because the stiffness makes it easier to work with as a template. Here is the design traced on to the brass sheet. It is 32 guage. Quite thick. Before I do any more work on the brace, I have to get the bell crook dent free (or as close to it as I can) and aligned so the center of the bell stem runs parallel with the center line of the bell flare. After I aligned the bell I soldered a peice of brass on to keep it aligned while I took dents out of the crook. When working on a bell crook, the curvature of the crook will start to open up and look like Dizzy's bell. The brass rod prevents this from happening. That is all I have done for now. It is Thanksgiving here, so I chose to spend the day with family instead in the 'brass cave' I work in. I also need to buy a new jeweller's saw so I can cut the thick brass. My Dremel tool wasn't working well, even with my new Tungsten-Carbide bit. __________________ Schilke B3L Schilke XA1 Bach 37 180 ML Chinese custom horn Yamaha 6310G Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley

10-12-2009, 06:27 PM	#7
y-o-y Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: LBC Posts: 52	Re: Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 This thread is full of win You mention that you aren't a great visual artist...do you have friends that are more skilled in this area? if so, this would be a great opportunity to collaborate and get some ideas to use with your experiments. Last edited by y-o-y; 10-12-2009 at 06:31 PM.

10-12-2009, 08:57 PM	#8
Brekelefuw Forte User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,656	Re: Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 I do have visual artist friends. I guess I never thought of asking them to help me. I am going to have to look in to that. __________________ Schilke B3L Schilke XA1 Bach 37 180 ML Chinese custom horn Yamaha 6310G Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley

10-18-2009, 05:05 PM	#9
Brekelefuw Forte User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,656	Re: Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 Here is a bit of an update. I worked for about 45 minutes on the bell bow design today. I spent the other 3 hours working on my other side project, a friend's trombone that was run over by a car. (It is a huge job, and may not end up working out. I can do a writeup of that one if there are enough people interested.) I used a small hacksaw and a dremel to cut the rough shape of the brace out of hte large brass sheet I bought. Then I used my dremel tool with a sanding drum attachment to bring the peice down closer to the outline that I drew. The outline is still oversized because I have to be very cautious when making my final cuts. I don't want to mess up and make the brace too small to fit in the crook. After I got it to the shape of the outline I buffed the peice up to get all the scratches and crud off of the brass that came on it when I bought it. The other reason I buff it is because it smoothes the edges that get rough when sanding and cutting. I wouldn't want to pick up my horn when it is done and cut myself on a burr or sharp edge! I took this one to show you how shiny I got it. You can see my reflection (me holding my phone camera) in the brass. Finally, I placed the brace on the block of wood and placed the bell over top and retraced the outline of the crook to give myself a better idea of the dimensions I need to take the brass down to next time I work on it. The reason I used a block of wood is because the bell is tapered and if I traced the outline on the brass and the bell wasn't flush with the brass, my outline would be off and I could ruin my peice. Short update, but an update none the less. I may be in next weekend to work on it if I don't have a gig (although I do hope I have a gig because playing is my first love when it comes to trumpets) __________________ Schilke B3L Schilke XA1 Bach 37 180 ML Chinese custom horn Yamaha 6310G Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley

11-02-2009, 11:40 PM	#10
Brekelefuw Forte User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,656	Re: Custom Trumpet Project # 2.5 Yet another update. I went in to work this weekend to finish up shaping the bell bow brace. I didn't take shots of that because in my last post I explained the process. This time, instead of a dremel, I used a hand file so I could have more accuracy. Here is the brace after I soldered it in (which was a huge pain to align) and scratched the area after cleaning up any extra solder at the joint. The fit is pretty good. There is a little gap at the top of the brace, but I don't think it detracts from the overall aesthetic. I may do a bit of work by hand on the slope of the curve to make it a bit more 'slope-y' After I installed the brace, I did a rough fitting of it on the horn. Olds Ambassadors have two braces around the valve casing called "Ballast Braces" which attach to the leadpie, valves and bell. I needed to do a rough fitting so I could get the ballast braces aligned with the bell. That will make it easier to fit the leadpipe on when I get to that stage. If you look at the bell in relation to the 3rd valve and lower main tuning slides, you can see that it is sloped a bit downwards. When I work on it next I will heat the ballast braces and the bell stem until the solder gets pliable and shift the bell up a fraction of an inch so that the center-line of the bell flare runs parallel with the center-line of the bottom slides. That's all for tonight. I will be back in to work on the horn in two weeks because this weekend is my mother's birthday. __________________ Schilke B3L Schilke XA1 Bach 37 180 ML Chinese custom horn Yamaha 6310G Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley

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