cmg

I just picked up a mid 80's Getzen 300 cornet to clean up as there's no cornets in the collection. The silver plating looks as though it was never cleaned or polished with large areas of the bell, inside and outside, appearing as almost black stains. The valve casings and most of the rest of the horn were covered with an almost dark purple patina, which cleans up relatively nicely with 3M Tarnishield. The problem is the dark "stains". Tarnishield has reduced the size of the stains, but will not remove them completely. I've never seen this level of staining on any of my silver horns in over 35 years.

What's going on here? Has the copper in the brass under the silver become oxidized? Is there any way to "spot clean" these stains, possibly with one of the silver dip cleaning solutions? I don't have much into the horn and don't intend to spend much on it. Thanks for any ideas you may have.

Chris

P.S. Oh yeah, after the initial soaking/internal cleaning, the valves behave like all typically fast, buttery smooth Getzen valves! At least that part of the horn is good...

Firestas'1

I would give Hagerty's Silversmiths Polish a try, the stuff removed some very stubborn stains on various items for me.

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Stan J.

What is to reach the heart must come from above. If it does not, it will be nothing but notes, body without spirit.
--Ludwig van Beethoven

Music is God's best gift to man. The only art of heaven given to earth, the only art of earth we take to heaven.
--Letitia Elizabeth Landon

rowuk

disassemble the horn, place it in a sink with HOT water and a couple of tablespoons of salt and a big piece of aluminum foil. IF the stains are any type of oxidation, the o2 will move from the silver to the aluminum foil, leaving the silver very bright with NO MECHANICAL WEAR! If brass or copper plate is shining through and you polish the silver, you will remove even more and make the stain bigger.
If in doubt, send an email with pictures to Getzen. They are plating themselves now and judging from Brett Getzens posts, they have "seen it all"!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

cmg

Hi rowuk,
What's the molar concentration of the salt solution required?

I already tried the method on a couple of the slides using hot water and baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), not salt. I did this prior to any Tarnishield application. What I saw there was the lighter, non-deep-purple tarnish lost its sulfides and returned to pure silver quite nicely. The deep purple areas (not the dark stains I see on the bell) barely changed, hence the Tarnishield application that worked well. As the cornet body was primarily dark purple/gray I figured the process effectiveness would be similar so I went right to the Tarnishield.

Here's my question. Is the salt more effective than the baking soda, i.e., does the solution have a higher concentration allowing faster/better transport of the sulfur from the silver to aluminum?

Also, my soak tub requires 3-4 gallons of water to cover the horn, and I've seen on many sites to add 1 cup of baking soda for every gallon. Seems like a lot. Any ideas on how much salt to add to 4 gallons of water?

Thanks.

mike ansberry

Tarn-X (maybe not the right spelling) will take just about anything off. But be careful. It is strong stuff.

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Indian

I have seen a couple horns silver finish pitted and removed by Tarn-X. I use Mothers Billet Polish and have not had it damage any silver or brass horns. I have not tried it on gold plating. The salt and tin foil is a good trick and safe as far as I know. I have seen a black stain on an old silver cornet that was caused from an acid bath that had some nitric acid (HNO3). The black stain was silver nitrate.

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tedh1951

As per previous posts on this - silver polish REMOVES silver, no question, take extreme care - electrolysis doesn't, go with the salt and foil. As to the concentration - add salt to the warm water until it won't disolve any more - you see salt on the bottom of your bowl. this is a saturated solution and you can't get anymore salt in unless you change the temperature. Cool the solution and salt will fall out of solution onto the bottom of your container, heat the solution and you will be able to use more salt - the more salt, the more active. Wash the trumpet/cornet really thoroughly afterwards. This is electricty being produced - in fact a simple battery. The gunge will come off and the instrument will be sparkley.

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Ted

Jurandr

I've also seen in other threads that you should not allow the foil to touch your trumpet! This would cause more trouble than what you started with.

Patric_Bernard

Wow... I never thought about cleaning my horn through electrolysis... I think I have a new next weekend project haha.

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tedh1951

Patric et al,

I have trolled through Google and come up with perhaps a more concise description - but using baking powder and categorically stating that contact IS necessary. For what it's worth: -


Silver tarnishes when sulfur attaches to the silver creating silver sulfate, an unseemly grayish thing that my In-Laws swear is my fault. Chemical applications and any abrasive cleanser/polish will actually remove the entire structure of silver sulfate from the surface, sulfur AND SILVER. Ahh! Along with the silver sulfate, there goes some of the valuable silver, huh? This is especially bad when you are dealing with cheaper silver plated things. The plating may only be a few atoms thick. One good scrubbing can remove most or ALL the silver. So, to alleviate this problem, you must use a method that will remove the sulfur and leave the silver intact. A basic electrolysis lab takes care of this. You will need a sheet of real aluminum foil, hot water, baking soda, table salt and a pan to do this in.<B>

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Ted