trumpetmike

This is something said by Manny in another thread that intrigued me and got me thinking about not just the way I was taught but also the way I teach my more advanced students.
Do we start on the smaller trumpets (piccolo) too soon in our development?

When I was starting out I started my lessons on a Bb instrument. The only other instrument I played was a cornet in the local brass band. When I started playing in the local youth orchestra (aged 16) I borrowed an Eb/D trumpet and that became my "high" trumpet. I could play as high on my Bb (range was never a problem), but if a part said "D trumpet" I used the D. Life was simple.
Then I got asked to play Brandenburg. The part said trumpet in F - when I had played in the orchestra Trumpet in F had been done on my Bb, so I rehearsed it (the first few times) on my Bb (yes, I am serious). Then I talked with the trumpet tutor at the orchestra who said that I should be playing it on a piccolo trumpet - I didn't have one so borrowed one from one of the guys in the section. I didn't find the range too hard, but getting a pleasant tone was a serious challenge (and as for tuning, can we skip over that topic for now ) - I didn't have the skill (or the teacher) who could tell me how to correct what I was doing wrong. I loved the instrument, but couldn't get it to work for me. I could play all the notes on my Eb/D, so why wasn't it acceptable to play it on that (an instrument that I thought sounded better)? If someone came on stage today with an instrument other than a piccolo (or a nat) and played Brandenburg would they ever be taken seriously?
For that matter, if someone was to perform Telemann (let's go for a piece that isn't quite so extreme) on a D trumpet, would questions get asked?
Might many students actually benefit from playing the higher pieces on bigger instruments (especially at the beginning of their performance life) rather than sometimes relying on the piccolo trumpet to get the notes.

Having listened to a number of young performers, the one instrument that very few of them seem to play really well has been the piccolo. They all seem to own one (and many seem desperate to use it), but there seems to be a certain something missing when they play on it.

So, all of this combined - are we starting playing the piccolo too soon?

Maybe some time spent on the intermediate instruments might make the piccolo an easier beast to master?

Apologies for the rambling, but I have been trying to put a lot of random similar thoughts into decent words and failed miserably here.
I look forward to more coherent posts from the rest of you.

B15M

I have been playing duets with my daughter lately. She is going into her junior year of high school.

Sometimes when we play B flat trumpet she has some trouble. Recently I took out a C trumpet and had her play on that. She sounded way better.

Yesterday we played some Arbans on E flat. She sounded great and I think it's good for her. She is playing higher then she thinks and her sound is better. When we go back to B flat I can hear a difference.

I tried picc. but she couldn't do it comfortably.

I hope this was relevant to your post.

John P

I played picc for Beauty and the Beast my senior year of high school. Thankfully I had an amazing teacher that was able to give me a "crash course" in piccolo playing. Without such a teacher, I'm sure I could've really messed up my chops.

Would I recommend this to other younger players? Yes. As long as they have a good teacher and as long as they balance picc practice (not more than 15-20 minutes a day) with practice on the big horns.

__________________
JP

cornetguy

i would really like to see hs students really learn how to play the b-flat, good even tone through the entire range, control of the fingers, learning to play musically and decently in tune rather then the smaller horns or extremes

__________________
Per aspera ad astra

Bugle Boy

I believe when any student learns to play the piccolo trumpet they need to have a solid foundation developed on the larger B-Flat trumpet first. Unfortunately many younger students believe that using a piccolo trumpet will double their range, which is certainly not the case at all. If a student does not have the proper approach on the larger trumpet the piccolo will present many problems and frustrations. I think the following concepts are important: One should have good range control on the larger horn first. Good control from high C up to G is important. The tone and pitch should be under control without a lot of strain, tightness or excessive pressure. The student should also have the ability to transpose 3rds and 4ths. If they cannot transpose they will not be able to play a great deal of the literature. A lot of the literature is written for trumpet in D or C, so transposition is critical to develop full piccolo potential.

Age is not so much the issue, but having solid fundamentals and approach is. I believe the player must have good flexibility and control of the dynamics in order to have good control on the piccolo. If everything is tight and loud then the approach is wrong. Younger students need to be careful not to use too much excessive lip pressure. Anybody that plays the piccolo seriously knows the intonation issues, so the piccolo player must have the ability to do some “bending” of pitch on certain notes. It is important to have certain pitches such as D and E-flat under control.

Over the years most players I have met use the “A” pipe in the piccolo most of the time. If you are playing most of the literature written for trumpet in D and C you will need to command the piccolo pitched in “A” verses B-flat. Once the student has proper range with control, transposition ability, pitch control and dynamic control on the large B-flat then they will have the foundation to play the piccolo trumpet with the correct approach.

This is a very good question. I would certainly like to hear Manny’s comments.

__________________
Bugle Boy
Lawler C7 B-Flat
Leblanc Paris Flugelhorn

Manny Laureano

Well, I'm very much with TMike on this one but thinking about this has made me recall that I played piccolo in High School when I auditioned on the Brandenburg to get into Juilliard. Having said that, it was a one time shot. It's not like I played solos all over the place with it. It was on loan from Jack Laumer who was teaching there at the time.

The point is, I played the Bb exclusively until my first year at Juilliard when Vacchiano told me to get a D trumpet. I finally got a C trumpet my second or third year at school.

I like for kids to get that bold sound of the Bb in their heads. I like for them to learn to tame that beast before they make their lives easier on the C. It's good to get comfortable with the dangers of D and Db major before eliminating from the musical diet altogether. Okay, that's an exaggeration, to be sure, but you understand me.

ML

Bugle Boy

Manny, thank you very much for your comments. I have a question on the small trumpets. As an professional orchestral trumpet player, how do you determine which trumpet you are going to use on a piece? Is is mainly an issue of the key you will be playing in, the sound you want to achieve or issues within the trumpet section itself? As an example if you were playing "The Trumpet Shall Sound" from Handel's Messiah would you play it on a D-Trumpet or on the Piccolo Trumpet? Just wondering since it is written for Trumpet in D.

Also a question on playing as a trumpet section. Bach's Christmas Oratorio is written with three parts for trumpet in D. Would the entire trumpet section use D-trumpets, or would maybe the first trumpet use the piccolo and the second and third use the D-trumpet? How do you balance the trumpet section? Thanks.

__________________
Bugle Boy
Lawler C7 B-Flat
Leblanc Paris Flugelhorn

Manny Laureano

ML

trumpetmike

Manny - do you think that there is a market here for owning a smaller D/Eb trumpet?

Having played Christmas Oratorio (and similar) using the 2 piccs and a D setup, when the 3rd player is using a big D (Schilke, for example) the balance is often more difficult to achieve. When they have used a Selmer (still very popular over here) the tonal balance between that and the piccolos has been a very easy combination.

I am also a huge fan of Messiah being a picc/D double act (1st on picc, 2nd on D) - it means that the lowest notes can be played by the 2nd player. Again - it works much better with a small D.

Bill Dishman

Many have various experiences in this process...

I took the pretty much standard route (as far as I know)

Began in Bb cornet Played it for 4 years until getting use of the professional Bach Bb cornet in 10th grade. That year I also began Bb trumpet and then in Junior year of high school started on C trumpet. I was heavy into orchestral playing (such as was possible) starting in 7th grade and wanted to play C trumpet primarily for orchestra and some solo literature. Senior year began work on the Eb/D horns for orchestral and church work. I had learned many solos on Bb and used Eb/D for the same baroque style solos.

Did not begin piccolo until 1st year undergraduate studies. Due to a solid background and spending enough time on the larger to smaller horns, piccolo playing fell right in line.

While I primarily use my C and piccolo horns today (some Bb) I feel that at least for me the process from larger to smaller while spending an appropriate amount of time and attention to each worked well for me. I have used this format with my private students over the years with good results. Occasionally a student will show a propensity for the smaller horns and I can accellerate the process with him or her being careful to look for "bips" along the way.

Just a few thoughts...

Bill Dishman
Gainesville, Florida