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Horns Discuss Dual Bore: What's the advantage? in the Equipment forums; I've seen a lot of King trumpets advertised as "Dual Bore" and a while back, I managed to land one ...
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    Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    I've seen a lot of King trumpets advertised as "Dual Bore" and a while back, I managed to land one on ebay--a Symphony Silver Sonic--but absent a regular medium or large bore horn to compare side-by side, it's hard to attriute any specific playing characteistc or advanage to that elemet of its architecture.

    More recently, I pulled my MartinTroubadour down off the display rack where it hangs, and discovered while lubricating the main tuning side that it too was a dual bore design. Most recently, I discovered the same thing about my Rudy Muck Citation, and a Benetone, and an Acme, so am now pushed to answer the question: "Why"?. Looking at the geometry of thetrumpet, this configuratio gives the player a tapered leadpipe, a 3-4" section of cylindrical tubing in the upper leg of the tuning slide, about 3" of tapered tubing in the curved portion of the slide, and then back to cylindrical as the air passes through the valve block, ultimately tapering up again in the bell. Fortunately Ive got a reasonablecontrol horn to compare these against but so far, the comparison has been less than enlightening.

    So, with apologies to the little old lady who did the Wendy's ad: Where's the beef? What is the supposed advantage / selling point of this design? What's it supposed to do for me as a player. I'm looking for it, but I can't feel it or hear it.

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    Pianissimo User Efig's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    I did some selling and I too have purchased a King Super 20 with silver bell. A dual bore model too.

    I personally don't notice bore size differences too much, more has to do with reciever, bell size and overall wrap.

    So this dual bore of the King Super 20 is supposed to start of from .458 then ends on the other side with .468. All I can make out is that the trumpet plays easy and blows big. I fell like the bigger bell of the King helps with that aspect.
    The Martin Troubadour is like a odd tight peashooter wrap trumpet and should play noticeably different in feel and sound from the King Super 20. Is it easy to blow?

    Anyone else know the magic behind dual bore design or if its even noticeable? I'm starting to think these were just all marketing terms.

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    Pianissimo User Leslie Colonello's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    I played a Silver Sonic King with the gold wash inside the bell through college and had no idea about dual bores. No one ever told me and I didn't know if I would have done better with a single bore. It was still my favorite horn for flash and looks but was lost to Hurricane Katrina. Wish I had one for old times sake. Maybe someday.
    You would care less about what other people think of you if you realized how seldom they do.

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    Re: Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    I've been playing a dual bore horn since 1969 (My Bach MLV). It just feels different from a standard M or ML Bach horn. I think the sound is richer and more full than the typical 38 or 37. I'm not sure how much of that is due to the bell (72) and how much to the dual bore--but I can tell you that the MLV is by far and away my favorite Bach configuration.
    faulken and Leslie Colonello like this.
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    Pianissimo User Efig's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie Colonello View Post
    I played a Silver Sonic King with the gold wash inside the bell through college and had no idea about dual bores. No one ever told me and I didn't know if I would have done better with a single bore. It was still my favorite horn for flash and looks but was lost to Hurricane Katrina. Wish I had one for old times sake. Maybe someday.
    Sad to hear the loss of the King, maybe I will sell you mine when I find a horn I like better! I haven't had it for too long yet, getting it serviced now, tuning slide needs some pulling. But other than that, it's all original and the valves are very fast.
    tobylou8 likes this.

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    Piano User Pascalouisiana's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    Hi there,
    Usually I hang out in the "Vintage" section of TM, but when I saw that someone started a thread on dual bore trumpets, I had to chime in. Actually, I wanted to start a thread on dual bore horns in the vintage section, but since BobnBuckingham did it here, I felt it was no need to do so.

    Well, as advantages go, I don't know, but they feel different. I have a Martin Troubadour, a Rudy Muck Citation, a Evette & Scheffer and a York Hickernell Solo trumpet that are dual bore. I know one thing, they are my favorite trumpets (beside a few others to be honest though). But the others are all large bore (King 2B, Holton 21LB, Courtois balanced LB, oh! and my Olds Super, oh and a Keefer Intonatic! (another beast)).

    I don't think dual bore is a gimmick but an option given by manufacturers to players. We all look for the best trumpet for ourselves, not that it is the best trumpet ever, but the trumpet that matches us the best. Well, I am concerned, dual bore trumpets just do it perfectly for me: richness of the tone, easy blowing, ease with low notes to very high register (pedal C to double C). Find the right mouthpiece for you and the horn and it becomes magic. (I use Giardinelly 3B or Curry 3TC)

    Someone will say that the way these dual bore trumpets is built is identical (or close) to cornets. Maybe, they should be called cornets, since they are more conical than traditional cylindrical trumpets. Oh well, what ever! Technical debate. I'm not technical. They take a trumpet mouthpiece, they look and sound like a trumpet (at least the way I want my trumpet to sound), so they are trumpets.

    Now, since I know what works best for me, my personal interest is to know what trumpets are actually dual bore. Any exhaustive list is welcome. Some would probably be a my next Santa list...

    Another thing, I think that dual bore works also the other way around. I have read (can't remember precisely) that some trumpets (was it Selmer) go from big to smaller (at least at the bell loop).

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    Re: Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    The Claude Gordon Benge has a small choke at the bell tail. I think it was originally a mistake, but he liked it.

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    Piano User Pascalouisiana's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    As the list of dual bore trumpets goes, I have found the following (in no particular order and including the bore sizes when available):

    * Besson Breveté "C" trumpet (420 -> 438)
    * Conn 18B (420 -> 438)
    * Wild Thing (460 -> 470) with slide #2
    * Bach Vindabona MLV (top leg 444, bottom leg 453, valve block 459, #72 bell 462)
    * Getzen Renaissance (462 -> 464)
    * King super 20 1049 Symphony (458 -> 468)
    * Kanstul 1500A (453 -> 464)
    * Kanstul rotary 1505/1506 (437 -> 453)
    * Blessing super artist (? -> 468)
    * Rudy Muck (Blessing Super Artist clones - 5 digit #)
    * Rudy Muck (some Citation models)
    * Evette Shaeffer (I need to measure it, I have one)
    * York Hickernell Solo (I need to measure it, I have one)
    * Nuss ( 435" inside the upper main slide to .450" inside the lower main slide to .459" in the valve section. )
    * Couturier conical bore trumpet
    * Schilke B5 (75% conical)

    SPECIAL:
    Benge Claude Goron (468 at the valves, 464 at the bell choke)
    Yamaha Shew [step bore] going up and down and up again
    Schilke B6/B7 [step bore]

    PLEASE UPDATE, EXTEND, CRITICIZE THE LIST.

    THANKS
    "It's harder to get a cornet sound on a trumpet than a trumpet sound on a trumpet." -by me
    "It's harder to get a trumpet sound on a cornet than a cornet sound on a cornet." -by me

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    Re: Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    Updating and extending your list with measurements:

    * Rudy Muck Citation (B&M) 457 -> 472
    * Benetone (B&M) 457 -> 472
    * Evette Schaeffer (B&M) 457 -> 472
    * Blessing Super Artist Stencil: Monopole Conservatoire 445 -> 465
    * Martin Troubadour 433 -> 453
    * King Symphony DB 459 -> 465 Interestingly, the King does not expand across the main tuning slide...only as it enters the valve block
    Pascalouisiana likes this.

  10. #10
    Pianissimo User Leslie Colonello's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Bore: What's the advantage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pascalouisiana View Post
    As the list of dual bore trumpets goes, I have found the following (in no particular order and including the bore sizes when available):

    * Besson Breveté "C" trumpet (420 -> 438)
    * Conn 18B (420 -> 438)
    * Wild Thing (460 -> 470) with slide #2
    * Bach Vindabona MLV (top leg 444, bottom leg 453, valve block 459, #72 bell 462)
    * Getzen Renaissance (462 -> 464)
    * King super 20 1049 Symphony (458 -> 468)
    * Kanstul 1500A (453 -> 464)
    * Kanstul rotary 1505/1506 (437 -> 453)
    * Blessing super artist (? -> 468)
    * Rudy Muck (Blessing Super Artist clones - 5 digit #)
    * Rudy Muck (some Citation models)
    * Evette Shaeffer (I need to measure it, I have one)
    * York Hickernell Solo (I need to measure it, I have one)
    * Nuss ( 435" inside the upper main slide to .450" inside the lower main slide to .459" in the valve section. )
    * Couturier conical bore trumpet
    * Schilke B5 (75% conical)

    SPECIAL:
    Benge Claude Goron (468 at the valves, 464 at the bell choke)
    Yamaha Shew [step bore] going up and down and up again
    Schilke B6/B7 [step bore]

    PLEASE UPDATE, EXTEND, CRITICIZE THE LIST.

    THANKS
    Not a criticism nor update, just a fond memory. When I read your list and saw the King I was reminded that when I was a kid taking lessons my trumpet was a lacquered King Cleveland. My trumpet teacher had a burnished gold King Super 20 Symphony with beautiful engraving. If I had a particular problem playing a passage, he would open his case and show how it should be done. The small studio in his basement would be filled with the smell of camphor, as he kept it in his case to combat moths or something. I use to look at that horn with all the bells and whistles ie. hair-tuner attachments, third valve stop screws, and his name inscribed on the lead pipe, and look forward to the day when I could possess such a trumpet. Pascalouisiana's list spurred my memory. I don't intend to hijack his post.
    Pascalouisiana likes this.
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