Gene

I have the above horn and really enjoy it. I am not a professional but have been quite serious regarding my return to playing the past three years after a some 30 year break. I also have a Getzen Custom 3051 as well as a Bach C. My playing is mostly at church and for my own pleasure.

The Eclipse is of course a beautiful horn, however it (or I) tends to play somewhat flat. I am using a Curry 5C. Any suggestion on getting it more consistantly in tune would be appreciated. My teacher is not much help here as she is not only a great symphony player but also stuck on Bach as the preferred horn. She has a Malonized gold plated Bach that is really awsome.


Gene

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Gene

Bb Gplated MR Eclipse
Bb Getzen 3051s
Picc Yamaha 9830

stchasking

You are the first Eclipse player that has suggested there is a problem with the horn. How does your teacher sound on it? Does she play in tune? Do you trigger the slides as you should on valve combinations that are out of tune?

Is your teacher Judy Saxton?

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"I was performing professionally at age 17 and have never had a real job." Allen Vizzutti

http://cdbaby.com/cd/mcking

ndelson

How far do you pull out your main slide? For a while, I was pulling it out too much on my MR. I was playing high on the pitch from years of playing other horns.

It seems simple, but try pushing your slide if it's out far. Otherwise, perhaps a different mouthpiece might be better for that horn.

Good luck!
Neil

Gene

Yes I do trigger the slides but probably not as expertly as it could be done. My teacher is Susan Messersmith. She is the one who pointed out it was 'out of tune' after playing it. I had assumed it to be part of a new sound being somewhat on the dark side. The two of us and me later have been checking it with a tuner as well. Hers and mine both of which are good quality as well as against her Bach and my Getzen.

It is somewhat puzzling. I do love it though from the feel, to the blow, as well as the craftsmanship.

Thanks

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Gene

Bb Gplated MR Eclipse
Bb Getzen 3051s
Picc Yamaha 9830

tatakata

I have heard they are well made but play a bit on the flat side as well.

Gene

Hmmm I have been waiting to ask about this with all the well deserved raves about them. Am just hoping there is something on the back side of the mouth piece that can be done to remedy it. One suggestion was to shorten the first valve tuning slide. But I am not too keen on messing with a Masters work.

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Gene

Bb Gplated MR Eclipse
Bb Getzen 3051s
Picc Yamaha 9830

stchasking

I would work with the lead pipe. Remove the mouthpiece receiver. Shorten the lead pipe and solder the receiver back on the lead pipe. You had better check on this with the Eclipse person first. It is not as simple as it sounds.

Have you checked the gap between mouthpiece and lead tube inside the receiver? Maybe you have too much gap? Somebody out there knows about this and can provide some information.

__________________
"I was performing professionally at age 17 and have never had a real job." Allen Vizzutti

http://cdbaby.com/cd/mcking

Gene

Thanks, that gives me some thing to think about. Bob Reeves did the valves on my other two horns so I may ask K.O.

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Gene

Bb Gplated MR Eclipse
Bb Getzen 3051s
Picc Yamaha 9830

tatakata

Ouch. Have you tried pushing that tuning bell thing all the way in. I wouldn't start cutting just yet

I think part of the problem might be there is not enough resistance on the trumpet with the lack of a tuning slide. so it might blow on the flat side.

I would push in where ever you can and try mps with a tighter throat and backbore.

lonelyangel

Hello Gene, hope I can help you get to resolve your problem.

I have been playing Eclipse trumpets exclusively for four and a half years now and it is highly likely that I have played your instrument before it left the factory.

I know it is customary in this forum to preface posts with IMHO so as not to seem overbearing but in this case I am very happy to dispense with such protocols and state things categorically and as a matter of fact.

Firstly, and no offence intended tatakata, Eclipse trumpets do not play a bit on the flat side. They have built a reputation amongst the finest players imaginable of having near perfect intonation leading to a more even tone, greater projection and improved stamina - because there is little or no energy wasted in bending notes in tune or compensating for the resulting change in timbre, by apperture and oral cavity control, that this manipulation of the pitch requires on all other trumpets.

Ndelson makes a valid point - of course all players are different, but on average the Eclipse players I work with have their slides extended by between 3 to 6 mm or around 1/4inch - which is generally less pull than you might expect on a regular trumpet slide. It should also be noted that moving the tuning slide in or out by as little as 1 mm makes a great change to the pitch of these horns. This is partly because the bore of the tuning slide on an Eclipse is so much greater than on a regular trumpet - but also because the stability of the core of each note - the slot - tends to be much more defined than on regular horns.

Now I know this may be stating the obvious, but have you tried playing with the slide in a fully closed position? Next time you practice - do a normal warm up, to get the instrument and your chops up to temperature and then play a middle g with the slide fully closed and check the pitch on your tuner. It should be a good 3 or 4 tenths sharp. Whatever the reading on your tuner you should find that for each mm you pull the slide out, the note flattens by about 1 tenth. However being able to do this accurately presupposes that you have the control and experience to blow right through the centre of the note - to find the slot on the instrument - rather than bend the pitch with your lips, which is actually very easy to do without realising - even for highly experienced pro players.

One way to help make this easier is to use a harmon (tin or bubble mute) with the stem removed. Again you could try this - playing the same middle g muted with the slide fully closed and making sure that the mute is buzzing really vibrantly. The harmon will only make the characteristic buzz when you are right in the centre of the slot. This time the tuner should show the note as even sharper than before. Again try pulling the slide out 1mm at a time and retesting with the tuner until you get a green light. I would expect the slide to be out by at least 12mm or about 1/2 an inch, maybe more. Now if you remove the mute and reset the slide to a little under half the distance you reached with the mute, you should be in about the right position. Now play the middle g open and test with the tuner again.

I'd love to hear back from you as to what you discover with this little experiment.

However - I am suspicious that what we are really talking about is not tuning, but intonation. I am very curious as to why you think changing the first valve slide length would change the pitch of the horn - that would only alter the pitch of the notes you play witthe the first valve.

Are there particular notes that are causing you concern, if so which ones?

It is a fact that the intonation on an Eclipse is totally different from the intonation on any other trumpet. Certain notes are sharp on normal trumpets, others are flat - particularly with expert players(and I would include your teacher in that category) you find that they have become so used to compensating for these imperfections in traditional trumpet design that they do not realise they are battling against the instrument. When they pick up an Eclipse for the first time and play, for example a top line F - which normally sits high on a trumpet - they may think the Eclipse is flat because they automatically compensate for the expected variation in pitch centre associated with that note. It takes a little while to get used to the fact that with an Eclipse you can more or less just blow straight through the horn.

I'm willing to bet that your teacher would have a very different opinion of your horn if you were to lend it to her for a couple of weeks - in fact I'd be suprised if you got it back :)

One other little test you can try to demonstrate the way an Eclipse works is to play 4th space E. Play it open, then 1st and 2nd, then 3rd valve, then all 3 valves - the 4 pitches are almost identical! Now try the same thing on your other horns... let me know what you find. You could also check these pitches with your tuner.

Finally - you don't say where you got the trumpet, new or second hand?
If you are still unhappy PLEASE PLEASE do not shorten the leadpipe, mess with the valve slides or doctor the horn in any way - you are likely to make it worthless. PM me or email me and we'll arrange to get the horn back to the factory so that Leigh can have a look at it.

Hope this helps you and good luck in your continuing come back career.

All the best. Noel Langley.

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Noel Langley - Eclipse Artist noel@eclipsetrumpets.com

Eclipse Medium Yellow, scratch gold
Eclipse Medium Heavy Red, custom 'Diamond Back' in 24ct gold
Eclipse Red Brass Flugel
Custom Scherzer piccolo with copper Wedgewood bell, finished in scratch gold
Giardinelli 6S, 6M, 6FL Bach 3CW