zkfan

I've made quite a few successful trumpet and cornet purchases on eBay. Naturally, I started looking there, when I got the bug to get a Flugelhorn, but as I've never played one, I have been a bit hesitant. The large difference in bore sizes and how differently they must play and sound based on the bore, let alone design and quality stopped me. I guess this is a long introduction to the fact that I went and tried several today. I'm glad I did! What differences!

A friend (flute player, picking up trumpet) and I (comeback player, doing better than I could in High School, which still is well short of what I consider "good") made the 2 hour trip to South Bend, IN to Woodwind and Brasswind to try some Flugels (and my friend, trying some piccolos, too). First out was a Yamaha 631G, Yamaha 6310 Shew and a LeBlanc F357 Sandoval, all in lacquer. I used the Shew mouthpiece on all, to remove that variable. The Shew handily won that round, with the best sound, slotting and quality. Next up, was a Courtois AC154R, where my indecision began. The Shew was easier to play, slotted a little better and allowed me higher above the staff. The Courtois sounded much richer, didn't slot quite as well and was more dificult to even get above a G. (still using the Shew mouthpiece, which still fit the AC154R, though long)

Price is equal. Might the difference be closed in by varying mouthpieces? Maybe something larger for the Shew, when I wanted a darker sound? Or would something shallower or tighter in bore help the Courtois' range? (changing, based on what was being played) I know, I should have tried while I was there, but I'd already taken a lot of time from WWBW and my friend and I wasn't going to leap at a purchase today, anyway.

My intended playing will range between church and jazz band, with rare concert use. Any advice for a guy, who is probably over his head, looking to add a new and interesting toy? Both would be wonderful to play, with a little more work needed on the Courtois to secure the notes and range.

Thanks!
Steve

flugelgirl

If I were you, I'd look at the Getzens, both Capri and Eterna models, and the Conn Vintage One. All are better players for the price than the Yamaha Shew, in my opinion. For your needs, though, the Getzen Capri might be best. Good price range and good horn - I played mine for 17 yrs before I found something I liked better! To me, the Shew feels like a cheap plastic trumpet compared to the Capri, Conn, or especially my Rembrandt! The Shew is my Navy issue flugel, so I've played it enough to really feel the difference, and I actually prefer the Yamaha rose brass student model(I've had this one as Navy issue in the past) to the Shew. the Shew just feels really cheaply constructed in comparasin with the others.

flugelgirl

Something I forgot to add - try a deep cup flugel mouthpiece. It'll give you that darker flugel sound you need. Also, don't expect a flugel to play like a trumpet - they are different animals, designed for different purposes. Never approach them the same way! You will not have the same type of range on flugel - flugels are meant for a dark mellow sound, not for range. Think breathy ballad or bossa, not MF feature :)

mrmusicnotes

I bought my yamaha bobby shew flugel at the w.w.b.w.in new york city before it closed down.Man I really miss that store.I spent a lot of saturdays just trying out tons of horns.The shew to me had the best intonation,played easiest in the high register and slotted the best.I remember I e- mailed Bobby Shew with some questions about the horn and he quickly e-mailed me back with such a friendly and lenghty reply.Anyway,what ever horn you choose,please make sure you have the additional time you'll need to spend practicing.Trumpet and flugel play quite different and if you take time away from your trumpet your playing will truly suffer.Hope you really enjoy your new toy,which ever one suits you best.

zkfan

Thank you, Flugelgirl and MrMusicNotes for your advice. eBay just simplified my choice - I just snared a mint Yamaha 6310z for more than a third less than new. I'm hoping I didn't rush the decision, but I really liked how the Shew played and felt, so the discount should go a long way toward reducing any regret. The seller has very strong positive feedback history, so I don't anticipate any problems there.

Can't wait to play with my new toy!

rowuk

zkfan,
there is no question about the quality of Yamahas horns. There is always discussion about the sonics though. The Bobby Shew model is too "light" for me. When I play flugel, I want it dark. I have a 4 valved Getzen Eterna that works just fine!

zkfan

You're tapping into my psyche a bit, Rowuk. On down the line, I can see me getting the Courtois, also, to have that "darker" flugel. I'm the kind of person who looks for excuses to add to my collections.....

For now, I'm having a lot of fun seeing my abilities grow beyond where they have ever been before! The more I keep at it, the more likely I'll be able to convince my wife I really NEED another flugel! (okay, she won't really buy into that, but bribing her with another piccolo might do it)

JustinSmith

The Yamaha Bobby Shew flugelhorn 6310Z is a light weight flugel. From what Bobby told me, the horn was modeled after an old Cousenon. But it is considerably lighter weight. This makes sense as his trumpet is also a light weight trumpet, and he probably prefers some of the playing characteristics and feel. The sound as Rowuk says is not the darkest. However, the response is excellent. The horn speaks very fast, and the upper register is easier. It is a good flugelhorn for commercial things that have you sitting above the staff, where most other flugelhorns start to tighten up. They are good horns, but people either tend to love them or hate them.

I like them, but am playing an old vintage horn, that sounds great, but doesn't have all of the playablity that the 6310Z has.

Bruin

Flugelgirl & others - Thanks for your reply; very informative indeed. The Bobby Shew model has been the one topping my list of flugels that are reportedly of "excellent" quality, but which don't take me over the $2,000 mark. However, I have not held one yet -- when I near the time when I'm ready to buy, I will certainly try out all horns of interest. I'll be sure to compare it to other horns on that aspect as well.

As I am also considering going over $2,000 for my next flugel, I've also been considering the Kanstul ZKF-1525 flugel. Although some caution about its copper bell, Jack Kanstul himself assures horn players that his dad's (Zig Kanstul) knowledge, skills, and commitment to quality would not allow him to sell a horn that would be particularly vulnerable to damage. And, in terms of playability and producing a dark, mellow sound, I've been reading that the 1525 is a great horn. I also appreciate that their company is based in Anaheim, CA, which is about a 1/2 hour drive from my house, and I can test out all of their horns in their showroom -- how cool is that?

Interestingly, the Conn Vintage One flugel has been getting a lot of great feedback as well. I find this interesting because I've read some posts that almost write off Conn since their late 1960's horns, e.g., their newer Connstellation was criticized as "nothing like" their earlier versions.

I've played a Getzen Doc Severinson trumpet from the early 1970's, and found it to be a great playing horn. In this forum, Getzen's flugels have been getting a lot of great feedback as well. So, I'm also inclined to take a good look at those as well.

These discussions here are VERY helpful in pointing us in some good directions for our next flugels. Right now, I bought a Jupiter JFH-846S because I got it for a song ($540 in almost brand-new condition). But, I'm sure that when I finally get my chops back, I may want to upgrade soon after.

Thx again to all of you for your great feedback.

Cheers!

flugelgirl

I played the Kanstul and the Conn V1 side by side, and preffered the Conn. The Conn was better in tune, and was dark without being stuffy. The V1 is actually the only small bore flugel I've ever played that I really loved - if I hadn't already bought my Rembrandt, I would have left with it! Very sweet horn!