DSGerard

My regular Bb set-up is a Bach 72* from the mid 90's. The horn plays great but mechanically is marginally better than a student horn. The slides are very stubborn (even after cleaning) and the valves are just so-so. I've had the horn close to 10 years so it's just something I have lived with. Enough Bach ranting.

I like the sound that I get on the horn but have always felt like it was a little too spread and lacked a certain amount of "weight". I've played and owned a number of Bach 37's and like the sound that I get but 37's have always felt stuffy to me.

I was in Nazareth Music a few weeks ago and tried out a Schilke S22 (L bore, ML bell) and man what a sweet horn! The schilke was free blowing, had a focused sound and a little more weight in the sound than my 72*. It did not however give much feedback, which my bach does. It felt great up top with just a little resistance to lean against. It got me thinking about what I like about my Bach, what I liked about the Schilke, and if there is anything out there in the middle.


*FINALLY TO THE QUESTIONS*

-In the meantime, can anyone offer a suggestion based on their experience, of a horn that has focus (sound), feedback, weight (sound), and is freeblowing.

-Are the playing characteristics of the Schilke due to the large bore and tighter bell as opposed to the Bach, ML bore, wider 72 bell?

-Should I suck it up and give myself 6 mos. on a 37 to get comfortable again?
-Does any of this make sense or am I chasing a unicorn?

-I plan on buying a horn in 3-6mos. so maybe I should just give Felix a call!

Gerard

Vulgano Brother

Lots of great horns out there -- too many to list them all, but a cheap fix might be a rounded tuning slide on your 37; it may open it up enough to please you and help smooth some of the rougher notes.

Aside from that, with an open mind, try out a whole bunch of horns, not forgeting the offerings of Conn and Getzen.

Have fun!

camelbrass

I have the same experience as you on a 72 bell and, consequently, use a 37. For me the sound is tighter and more focused. The 37 normal weight bell should have more core that the 72* but maybe not as quick in terms of response. VB has suggested a 37 with a wider radius tuning slide and that may open it up a bit.

Schilke's are great trumpets but in my experience they seem to have a love/hate relationship with players that are used to Bachs. At first that great feel is a positive thing although the sound is 'not quite' what you want. Once the honeymoon period is over the disatisfaction seems to build until you don't want to play it anymore.

Regards,


Trevor

rowuk

Talking to Felix is a great idea in any case. He does not charge for that type of consulting so you win in any case!
I also have experienced the Camelbrass comment. Schilke does not build a horn with the sound Bach users are used to (why should they?). If you are aware of that, no problem.
The feedback issue is true of any horn that has more projection than a standard Bach. More of the energy is focussed towards the audience and less gets reflected off of the outside of the bell! Takes some getting used to, but that only takes a week or two.
I do encourage exercising our privilege of choice. Why should we all be "standard"? Because of an imaginary blending issue? There is enough proof that matched horns are not necessary for that!

topo3man

I guess the real question is whether your impressions of your horn's sound behind the horn are realized in front of the horn. Take a friend (preferably a musician) with you and compare a number of trumpets from the audiences perspective. If there is little or no difference between the new horns and you current horn, why spend the kind of money needed for a new horn when you could simply have your Bach tweaked for a lot less. A good technician (there are many and I don't want to get into a who's the best tech argument) can easily free up the slides and work on the valves for a fraction of the cost. If you already have an acknowledged great playing horn, don't give up on it even if it is a Bach!

gglassmeyer

I would also recommend the rounded tuning slide. This really makes a horn have a less stuffy feel. That's really the thing that sold me on buying my Conn Vintage One over a very nice Bach that I liked. I prefered the Bach until I switched the tuning slides on the Conn. The Conn came with both tuning slides and the Modular Valve Weight system (which I don't really use). The open feel with the rounded slide made me change my mind. Had the Bach come with both slides I might have chosen the Bach, but I'm not a bit disappointed with the V1.
If you do decide to get a rounded slide make sure you have a trusted technician fit it to your horn.

ctm2aud

If you love the sound of the 72* perhaps the mechanicals are something that can be worked on by one of the great shops we hear about on TM.

If you are truly in the market for a new horn, there is a Kanstul/Flip Oakes design I like very much; it's called the Celebration. It is a lot more focused than the Wild Thing but perhaps not as focused as a 37.

The Celebration plays very evenly and it's ability to project is shown in the following incident: I was playing recently across a 300 foot (approximately) pond that had eight large fountains going in the middle. I didn't think I would be heard on the other side because of the fountain noise but a guy walked around to complement my sound and invite me to join a band he was putting together.

I believe if you like the sound of the 72* bell you will like the Celebration as well; I like the feedback I get from it. Valves are just a shade on the noisy side compared to my Bach MLV 65G (my "dark" b-flat) but the slides work nicely.

Regards,
Dave Taylor

DSGerard

I appreciate everyone's suggestions and insight. I will consider everything when I am ready to buy.

If anyone has any more, please post!

tom turner

Based on what you are playing and what you want, it sound like you need to check out the new Flip Oakes "Celebration" model! This horn captured me recently, and for just the same reasons!

Free blowing, more solid and focused vs. a 72,* wonderful feedback to the player, and incredibly accurate and even throughout all the registers from the petals to the triples!

Not necessarily, but this Schilke blows less stuffy than the way the Bach is set up to blow.

You already identified my main complaint with the 37. The blow ain't changed on 'em in decades. The tight blow is what they were aiming at for the legit market.

No, you are just ready for a free-blowing horn without losing the precision and you want a gorgeous sound with just the right amount of focus. It sounds like you are a fine player who also has a brain!

Gerard[/quote]

Call Flip Oakes and talk to him before you buy. Don't expect him to try to sell you ANYTHING though. Flip told me once he hates salesmen types. He wants people to find the horn right for them, without a bunch of hype. Every salesman type though, wants to sell you a horn.

Talk to Flip. He's a real trumpet player with strong chops, and he makes no compromise horns made for other strong players with serious chops. You'll be amazed by how these horns play.

Arturo Sandoval found out this week after a gig . . . and immediately bought one of Flip's horns for himself!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner