dizzyizzy

How about a thread where we put info as to horn-related FRAUD, those people who have ripped us off, (as opposed to general fraud, like Katrina funds, computer viruses, etc). I mean info as to specific cases where we have been ripped either in buying a horn or obtaining services for a horn.

That way we could do a "search" and hopefully find enough info to help protect us.

For instance...another buyer and I were flat out ripped off recently via two EBay purchases from the same seller. (And there isn't much EBay can do about a REAL fraud...not a "problem with sale" type of case). I mean a matter where the seller is using bad info, doesn't even have the horn he's selling, takes only money orders/cashiers check. etc. Cost both of us over $1500, each for what came across EBay as a viable sale...not junk. Seller knew his material and properly constructed his fraud. We've filed criminal investigative complaints with every agency out there to date. Naturally, the seller can't be contacted, and has not responded to any email, USMail or other attempts to contact him. And, he used his real name & bank account; not even a Nigerian fraud artist...just a "classic" con artist.

They are out there, friends.

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Richard Oliver

I'd say no.

Too easy to damage a good person's reputation either by an honest mistake or malice.

Regards,

Richard

Tootsall

Yeah, there are some clowns using Chinese registrations and blatantly copying listings for Schilke B5s.... I've reported no less than 9 of them so far with identical ads... and all starting at less than $10!

beartrumpet74

I say no to this idea as well for the reasons Richard mentioned. There are way too many "scam" threads on the oTHer site started by the resident inch high private eyes. Many of these turn out to be legite sales and the persons reputation gets tarnished....
If you think it's a scam don't bid....
Enough with the self proclaimed "scam alert" artists....

Tootsall

Instead of reporting them here, gather the auction numbers and report them to Ebay.

camelbrass

The danger is that you push the button because something hasn't quite worked the way it should have for whatever reason. Most of the time the issue gets resolved eventually and everybody goes their own way.

Reputations are easily damaged and very difficult to build.

Regards,


Trevor

beartrumpet74

I'm so glad to see some of you rejecting the idea of having a forum dedicated to "outing" so-called scam artists. While I don't want to overreact to the original post, because I am certain it was written with nothing but good intentions, I have to say that I have been appauled at the amount of scam notices on the trumpet herald. They seem to show up every day, and usually the fraud is taking place overseas or it turns out NOT to be fraud. This site seems to have a more genuine and kind vibe to it and I would hate to see that changed by adding threads that provoke arguements when inevitably an honest person is "accused" of fraud. The fact is, that some people see fraud in everything and seem to "live" for trolling ebay looking for it. It seems to me that these frauds are farily easy to spot, and it would be a bit redundant to continue to harp away about them in threads better used for topics about playing, composing, and living music. Don't get me wrong I am as much a gear head as the next cat, but I sincerely hope the TM will refrain from assimilating the tone and direction the TH has taken.
Anyway, I wanted to make sure to let the original poster know that my post here isn't meant to flame or offend....I'm just hoping that one of the little things that bugs me about TH doesn't end up migrating here...
Best
Matt

tom turner

Plus, a crook will always go after the owner of an internet site and sue them for everything they have if the crook's name gets paraded out there and it cost him his crooked little income.

This is one reason some of the trumpet sites are having to be really careful about what they allow to be said on their sites.

If you really want to do this, and if you have nothing financially to lose, go for it . . . and start your own site.

In the end though, these people flow in and out of scams from places all over the world, and nothing short of a bullet in the head is going to stop 'em from ripping off as many people in their lifetime as they can.

They generally cannot be tracked down, and the expense of catching them is always more than their "take" on many scams.

It is just the sorry state of part of humanity . . . exposed for all good people to see and experience today, thanks to the power of the net.

Richard Oliver

Matt,

I chalk it up to human nature and bad manners on the TH's poster's part.

HN: "Ohhhh, I'm gonna tell on you!!!" Sort of first off the boat with the worst news possible sort of thing. When in reality we all fall short. St. Paul said it best.

BM: Civility has been thrown out with the bath water unfortunately.

Civility is one distinguishing contrasting characteristic of Trumpet Master, "generally" that I relish, and will nark out all offenders and as mannerlessly as possible to protect.

Actually, I do very much appreciate we are a bit more well-behaved here.

All the Best,

Richard Oliver

Khora

I completely agree that a scam artist type forum is not a good idea.

It did make me think, however, about whether it might not be a good idea to have a list - separate from the horn forum - where someone could list any stolen equipment.

I know people post that information occasionally, but it is hard to find with the search mechanism. It could be a useful resource, to help us be sure we aren't buying stolen goods - and might help in tracking down instruments that have gone astray.....

Just a thought.

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Sandy