Colonel Locke

Hi there everyone!

This is my first post here, but I've become rather familiar with the forums over the past few days. I'm sure I'll enjoy my time here.

Anyway, introductions aside, here is my situation. I've been playing the piano and pipe organ for about 10 years, and have some minor experience with the trumpet from early school band; however, I never continued with it through to high school band. This past year in high school, my senior year, I took up the trombone because the band director needed a third player. I considered sticking with the trombone, but after long considerations, I decided that I wanted to go back to my trumpet roots, and set out to buy a new horn.

Here are the ones I'm considering.

Getzen : Trumpets : 590-S Capri

This one is my current favorites, but it is out of stock at nearly EVERY online dealer... I emailed Dillon's to see if they have any available, hopefully they do....

VINTAGE OLDS STUDIO MODEL SILVER & GOLD Bb TRUMPET WOW! - eBay (item 370213014528 end time Jul-08-09 16:40:37 PDT)

F.E. Olds Special Trumpet 1953 - Los Angeles Near Mint - eBay (item 250450856209 end time Jul-26-09 07:58:23 PDT)

The Olds brand was recommended by a trumpet enthusiast friend, but I've always had this belief that Olds horns are more suited to jazz playing than classical (which is what I will mainly be playing.)

Bach Stradivarius Model 43 with #25 Leadpipe - eBay (item 160346510927 end time Aug-03-09 07:54:25 PDT)

The Bach Strad is very appealing simply because this is a high quality instrument, and the price is great. I feel like this will be the top choice by many of you.

So those are my options. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

MFfan

Welcome to the forum. I would pick the Strad for your situation. I had one for 22 yrs and it was good for concert band section work,and seems to be a predominant classical horn.

If you have a lot of money, get one of the OLDS' to play around on.
I am sure our OLD's afficiandos will chime in on their personal knowledge of those horns.

Nice to hear you play the pipe organ. My wife has been a church organist for many years and is a member of AGO.

__________________
Dave Rafferty
Lemar Trumpet (peashooter-Conn?)
Lyrical Trumpet (Tokan)

Besson 609 Trumpet
1955-60 Besson 8-10 Trumpet
1948 Besson cornet
1946 King Master Cornet
www.kalamazooconcertband.org

Colonel Locke

Thanks for the response.

I guess I've narrowed it down to either a Bach Strad or an Olds; there are plenty of both of these available on Ebay. Now I just have to decide which....

ComeBackKid

OK - I will weigh in on the Olds side of things. I started 55 years ago on an Olds. I played it through Jr High, High school and College and for years after that. When I started my comeback a couple of months ago, the first one that I bought was an Olds. I now have 4 of them. The Olds models, whether Ambassador, Special, Super, Studio, Recording, or any of the others can play any genre of music that you care to use them for (just pick the right mouthpiece and develop your style). They are very responsive, have extremely good valves, are built like tanks, and will never give up. I can't think of a thing that you would want to do that an Olds could not do well. I have one that I picked up at a yard sale - it looked like someone had used it as a hammer. I took it to the shop, had it cleaned and straightened (all very minor stuff) and it plays like a dream. You can find ones like this
Olds Ambassador Bb Trumpet - eBay (item 170350288399 end time Jul-04-09 19:08:28 PDT)
for a very reasonable price and I can promise that you will not be disappointed (I have one and it is great). True, there are more exotic trumpets (like the Cannonball) but none that work harder and hold up better.
Good Luck with your search.

__________________
Come-Back Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Selmer Invicta London (T)
Olds SuperStar (T)
Olds Super (2T)
Olds Special (2T+C)
Olds Ambassador (9T+7C)
Andreas Eastman (2T)
Conn Director (T+C)
King Cleveland Superior (T+C)
Holton (T602+C605 Shep Crk)
Holton Collegiate (T+C)
Blessing (T+C)
Yamaha (T+C)
(+Some others)

Colonel Locke

Thanks for the input!

I'm quickly becoming a fan of Olds horns, and I've narrowed my search down to two which I will run by a friend of mine who restores and repairs brass instruments.


http://cgi.ebay.com/OLDS-AMBASSADOR-...3A1%7C294%3A30

http://cgi.ebay.com/OLDS-AMBASSADOR-...3A1%7C294%3A30

Any thoughts on these horns/sellers?

Peter McNeill

Welcome Col.Locke to TM,
I fully agree with MFfan if you plan to play with other trumpeters, eg brass band, big band, concert band etc. Bach Strad should be first. If you will be playing as a solo trumpet in a small group then the Olds would work.

If I was in you position, I would look for a good Bach Strat 180-37 as it will do you for all your group work, and get an Olds to play around on. BTW I love Olds, and would go for an Olds Super Cornet as the second horn. Just for the flexibility and difference as a comparison to the Bach. The Bach 37 is probably the standard in quality and sound for off the shelf horns.
Good playing, and keep swingin', Most of all Enjoy it; and be patient.
Cheers

__________________
Peter
Stopped Counting horns,
But just 1 more will be perfect...

ComeBackKid

Since these two examples are from the same shop, the only difference would be the finish and the original trumpet used for the restoration. The finish is simply a matter of whether you like the satin brass look or the silver and gold look. The underlying horns are slightly different but not very much different. The silver and gold one is an earlier Los Angeles model that was made prior to 1955 which is when the factory was moved to Fullerton and the satin one is a later Fullerton model. Since they do not provide the serial numbers, it is difficult to tell the year that either one was made.
The LA models tend to have a higher valuation - all other things being equal - than the Fullerton models. It is interesting to note that in the listings they refer to the silver and gold LA model as a "top of the line pro horn" while the satin finish Fullerton model is referred to as a "Student horn". In actual fact, there is very little difference between them. In fact, the first couple of years after they moved the factory to Fullerton, the horns were identical. I have both an LA model and an early Fullerton model and I cannot tell the difference (except for the engraving) and I have a friend who used to work in the Olds factory and he cannot tell me that there is any difference. There were some changes made over the years after the move to Fullerton but I cannot tell that they affect the performance. I also have a 60's model Ambassador and a 78 Ambassador (the last ones made were in 1979) which is near the end of the run. The playability of all of the models is the same as far as I can tell.
So, in this case, it boils down to whether the finish is the key to you or whether you like the slightly higher resale value of the LA model. The satin one does not say if it has been lacquer coated, which has been demonstrated to have an effect on the tone of the horn (some say for the better, some say for the worse) and that may be something to find out. Otherwise, either one is likely to be a wonderful playing trumpet with great sound.
Good luck on your decision.

__________________
Come-Back Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Selmer Invicta London (T)
Olds SuperStar (T)
Olds Super (2T)
Olds Special (2T+C)
Olds Ambassador (9T+7C)
Andreas Eastman (2T)
Conn Director (T+C)
King Cleveland Superior (T+C)
Holton (T602+C605 Shep Crk)
Holton Collegiate (T+C)
Blessing (T+C)
Yamaha (T+C)
(+Some others)

ChopsGone

I guess I have a different opinion about Bach vs. Olds. If you want to go by majority rule about what you should play, and if you're doing symphonic playing, you should probably look more seriously at the Bach. Of course, your local orchestra may play Schagerl, Schilke, or who knows what, but the Bach is a conservative safe choice. That's not to say that Olds was not well-accepted in such circles in its day, but you won't find many of them in use in large orchestras these days.

If you're playing other types of music instead, I don't think it's as important to have a brand name uniformity in the section. Your lead player may well play a Calicchio or a Wild Thing or one of the pretenders to the throne. If you're playing 2nd through 4th chair, your setup is likely to vary from the lead player's because the demands placed on you will vary by chair. A good clean Olds, especially a top model like a Super or Recording, can hold its own with just about anything out there. So will a good Selmer (from the right era and from Paris, of course), a Besson, a Kanstul, a vintage King or Conn - as long as it's a good horn in good condition. Play what works for you and what you can find or afford. If you can't make a decision, you could always go with a higher-end model Yamaha and sell it when you find the horn that's got your name on it.

__________________
Vintage Olds and Reynolds, yes sir, yes sir, one gazoo full.

Calicchios, Besson, Kanstul Bessons, Selmers, etc.

F.E. forgive me, even a Bach Strad (but I like the others much better)

rowuk

I really hate it when brand blindness leads to recommendations.................

First of all, all three models can be just fine. The Bach Stradivarius model has been pretty much a standard instrument in the pro world for many years. They have had some real quality control issues and there are some real dogs out there. I will not buy a Bach trumpet new or used without auditioning it first.

If you are not going to audition for a position in a professional American symphony orchestra, you have many choices on what to play. With very few exceptions, any great player is suitable for just about any type of music. The lie about blending just does not seem to disappear! The truth is that you do not need a matched section of hardware, you need complementary players to get a real section sound.

A Strad is not a good beginners instrument. I would not suggest it to a player with less than 3-4 years of serious playing under their belt.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Peter McNeill

Hey rowuk,
Did you bother to read the thread started by Col.Locke?
He has had some early experience with trumpet, and more with trombone.
It was his list of instruments he is considering.

From that list: what's your opinion...and yes of course go play them with a friend/teacher before you buy. If you do not consider the Bach Strad 1990's as a prime consideration and then the Olds units - value for money, parts and resale....
I would be surprised if you did not offer the same advice.

BTW I do agree with your comments, but with all these horns in the 700 to 1000 bracket, So if I was going to drop a grand, a Bach Strad, and then an Olds Super cornet would be my first recommendation...

Of course there are heaps of other options, and of course the horn will select you as well. Da..de.da..de..da...

From the list, what is your opinion to help reduce the risk for Col.Locke?

__________________
Peter
Stopped Counting horns,
But just 1 more will be perfect...