dsgmi

My son (11) is playing the trumpet in school (in his second year) and has shown quite a liking and decent ability. We initially rented a trumpet since we didn't know if he'd continue. Since continuing seems to be the direction, we'd like to purchase a used one but I am a little overwhelmed. From reading the forums here, I see that Yamaha, Conn, Getzen, King, Bach, Olds and Jupiter are well respected brands, probably among others. Here's the dilemma...do I stick with a true 'student' horn for him and get one of the beginner models or do I look around for something a step up (whatever that might be if there is that category between student and professional model)? Are some trumpets harder to play/require more skill? If so, I wouldn't want to get a trumpet that he would be frustrated with. Also, silver or brass?

Just a piece of info...the trumpet he is renting has a stuck slide (came that way, music store cannot get it unstuck) so we don't just want to purchase the one he is using...King 600.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide!

Vulgano Brother

Welcome to TM, dsgmi, and what your are wanting to do for your son is really cool!

"Student" trumpets are generally really sturdily built / so bad no pro would play on them or both. I like Getzens because they have the best valves in America and their "intermediate" models outplay many a pro one. The 700 series comes in silverplate, and there is this nifty urban legend that if you play a silver-plated trumpet you've just got to be good.

Thanks for being a cool parent!

__________________
www.letsbuildhope.org

Markie

You might want to check the Ad pad or your local pawn shop for a good used pro horn. You can sometimes get a used pro horn for the cost of a new intermediate horn. If you see a horn you like at a pawn shop, see if they will let you take the horn to the local band store to have a knowledgeable person look at it.
If you want it to be new, I concur with VB.

dsgmi

Since he's only 11 and I'm on a pretty tight budget, I was looking at getting him a used one. At this point he is determined to be eventually picked as bugler for his Boy Scout troop. There's been talk of marching band in high school...but that's a long way off.
My husband played through high school so he could try out any we find locally and at least get some sort of idea of how each plays. I have to admit, I've been watching the trumpets sell on ebay and I'm intrigued but also wary. I would assume that any used trumpet we bought should be taken to the local music store to be gone over, etc.

I had no idea how complicated the whole trumpet thing was before reading pages of previous posts. There is so much knowledgable information available here and so much to beware of! I do know enough, however, to steer clear of the new trumpets that are being imported from overseas and sold for only a little over $100. Any other advice you have, feel free to pass along.

(Mu husband's mother sold his trumpet at a garage sale for $10 about 20 minutes before he got home from college for the weekend...I think he had a Bundy. Whoever bought it got one heck of a deal as she also sold a clarinet or a flute and a saxophone all for $10 each!)

Vulgano Brother

Oh-boy! First of all, he'll have to get up and dressed before anyone else, and they get to play dead afterward.

Buy him a nice trumpet for back home!

__________________
www.letsbuildhope.org

ComeBackKid

Hello,
All of the brands that you mention are good for a student. I have some of most of those brands. Each member of Trumpetmaster will have a preference for your situation - mine is Olds. I started on an Olds cornet back in 1955. I still have it and it still plays as good as it did when new, and it still plays better than I do. So, if he were to start with an Olds, the only reason he would ever need to change is just for the fun of it. If you look at my signature block below, you will see nearly 40 instruments that I have listed there - all the way from student to professional grade. Why do I have them? Just for the fun of it. My 54-year old original would still be fine if I just needed one to play. So, it is really not the brand that is the issue here. It is simply finding something that works within your price range. Yes, ebay is a crap-shoot but unless you can find something locally like a garage sale, swap-meet, classified ads, Craigslist, etc. that is pretty much your option. There is a classified section here but again, most of the horns listed are not local to you. But, at least you can trust the members here to not sell you a junker.

Good luck.

__________________
Come-Back Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Selmer Invicta London (T)
Olds SuperStar (T)
Olds Super (2T)
Olds Special (2T+C)
Olds Ambassador (9T+7C)
Andreas Eastman (2T)
Conn Director (T+C)
King Cleveland Superior (T+C)
Holton (T602+C605 Shep Crk)
Holton Collegiate (T+C)
Blessing (T+C)
Yamaha (T+C)
Getzen 300
Amati ATR213
(+Revelle, Bundy, Alcazar, & ?)

Flathead75

I would second the recommendation made for the intermediate Getzen. I bought a new one for my son a few years ago and he played it through college and it has been a great horn. I think I paid $500 for it new , but that was at cost. You should be able to pick up a good used Getzen 700 for around $400 to $500. Don't let all the banter confuse you, a lot of what is discussed here is something you would only deal with after years of playing, as far as the technical things.

tedh1951

dsgmi, the following may sound a bit long winded, but I have been through your dilema a couple of times with a couple of 11-12 year olds here in Oz, admittedly one with a Bb tuba and the other with a trombone, but the priciple applies.

I too 'cameback' after 37 years away from my trumpet and was faced with the same questions so I knocked together some thoughts ....

I have included the data that I gathered together for my sons and our younger band members a couple of years ago - it may help.

Musical Instrument Web Buying Guidelines
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How to Buy A Trumpet or Other Musical Instrument on the Web Buying
Guidelines: By: J.L.Bowers, The Bandroom

Well, here you are! Your child has made the choice to learn to play the

trumpet in band. This is a great way to learn responsibility, to build character and to learn to work together with others. Learning to play a musical instrument takes many hours of practice.

Most school band programs don't get enough funding to provide all the
students an instrument to call their own. Therefore, leaving the parent or guardian to foot the bill for their instrument of choice. Let's focus on your options as a consumer looking to purchase an instrument. For many parents money is a big factor, let’s say your budget is tight and you want the best deal you can find. Well, it won't take you long to find out that a new musical instrument from your locally referred dealer is pretty expensive.

Most new trumpets will cost you around $700 to as much as $1,800 or more, depending on the instrument. So, for most of us that is not an option. Now you have to look for a used instrument. But, your local pawnshops have instruments that look pretty good, but the price tag and the guarantee don't match up. The newspaper isn't much help either. So, here you are. Searching the web looking at all the over 3,000 listings matching the word, "trumpet". What am I looking for? The first thing you need to arm yourself with is knowledge. Don't just start bidding on everything that is cheap. You might end up with nothing more than some used scrap metal. You need a decent quality instrument that is ready for your child to play. You might even find a quality instrument that needs very little repair. You certainly don't want to buy an instrument that can't be repaired! Your child will be carrying the instrument to and from school, in and out of the case, back and forth across the rehearsal area, and maybe up and down the marching field. A lot of things can go wrong when you are carrying around a delicate instrument.

Let's get you armed first with a list of brands that are quality used instruments. These brands can be repaired and there are a lot of them out there for sale. Bach, Benge, Besson, Boosey & Hawkes, Bundy, Buescher, Conn, DEG, Getzen, Harrelson, Holton, Jupiter, King, Lawler, Monette, Olds, Selmer, Schilke, Yamaha. Doesn't seem like a very long list? Believe me, the list of what not to buy is 10 times that long! There are new names popping up every day, it seems. There is no way you could get more than an opinion on which of these is better than the others are. There are so many factors to consider. A lot of these brands have several different styles. There are also instances where several of the above names are used in conjunction with one another, like; "Selmer Bundy", "Besson-Boosey & Hawkes", "Getzen DEG", or others. Don't worry, that is common. A lot of these companies have combined and even bought one another out over the years. But, these are names to be on the lookout for. Ok, now we know what brands we can trust and have narrowed our search down considerably! Next thing you need to arm yourself with is what questions to ask. I am a professional repairman. I could make the best musical instrument salesman spit-and-sputter all over his tongue with the kinds of questions I would ask. But I have listed some questions you should ask.

Do all of the slides operate smoothly? Are the valves dragging, sticking / moving? Do the water keys close tightly? Does air flow freely through the horn? Is the horn dirty inside, or outside? Are there any holes in the brass? Is the lacquer or plating worn? Are there any loose braces? Is there a mouthpiece? Is the mouthpiece stuck? Are there any parts missing? Does the case latch tightly? I would copy and paste all of these questions, just to be on the safe side.

When it comes to spending $200-1,000 or more, ask, ask, and keep asking! If the seller won't respond to your questions, find another seller to deal with! Also, check the seller's other items and past feedback. If the seller has 100 listings for car parts, clothes, and ashtrays – you need to ask a lot of questions. Also, does their feedback look good? Next, let's talk about a few other words to look out for in the titles and descriptions of your seller's auction. "Brand New!"- You can’t find a new horn for around $100 that is worth having. "Indian" or "Chinese"- probably thin brass or pot metal. Probably no replacement parts, or unrepairable! "Guaranteed New!"- This
doesn't mean NEW with a GUARANTEE! Just that they guarantee it to be new. "Won't last long!"- Never get in a hurry spending your hard-earned money! "Starts at $1.00"- They most likely have a horde of these off-brand trumpets to get rid of, and this is their way of drawing you into a $60-100 shipping charge! "BANKRUPTCY!"- In other words, you will go bankrupt trying to keep your kid in band class! "Liquidation Sale!"- Yeah right! None of the above companies have ever had to liquidate their instruments to anyone! "Band Director Approved!"- Hmmm? How do they know your band director?

Now, I am going to give you some search key-words to use...used trumpet student trumpet old trumpet trumpet for repair quality trumpet trumpet with guarantee. All of the above brands used individually make great searches as well. You can also enter the words "trumpet cleaning" and you will see what we (and other sellers) can personally do to get a quality used instrument back into shape. Be extra careful – ask your band director or your child’s tutor.

Now Ted’s Perspective. (two boys through the local school Band Scheme)

My comments are opinions formed from the perspective of an Australian trumpet player returning to the instrument after a 37 year break. I needed to purchase an instrument based on the criteria of quality and cost. I’ve been through the same process with my eldest son (Tuba – 2nd hand instrument, but with very, very good advice from my local Band Director) and my second son (Trombone – new instrument, after extensive research including reference to a professional repairman and a professional player/tutor). I bought American instruments in each case. King Tuba and Trombone, Getzen Trumpet.

My recommendation is to purchase a new instrument – because, unless you
really know “your stuff”, or you know a qualified someone, you are probably going to waste money. From my perspective you probably have three reasonable alternatives in Bb Trumpets (although there are many other excellent instruments on the market).

i. A Getzen Eterna II 700S – one of the instruments I used to play, and now used by my neice,
ii. A Yamaha YTR-4335GS – popular in the local Stage Band, James Morrison plays Yamaha (his sponsor).
iii. Bach 180 (Stradivarius) - Local Show Band (senior members) generally use, as does my trumpet tutor.

None of these can be accurately described as “student level” trumpets.

i. “The Getzen 700 Series Trumpets are perfect for the musician looking for a professional quality trumpet at an intermediate price. All 700 Series instruments are limited production and are only offered at a limited number of Getzen dealers.” eg Chuck Levin’s Washington Music Center (sic). My tutor played a Getzen professionally for about 18 years, he believes that the Getzen 700 is the best value for money on the market – my instrument repairman says Getzens are the best valves of any in the world – he hand builds trumpets with Getzen valves – Lawler trumpets are also hand built with Getzen valves.

ii. Yamaha also say that the Yamaha YTR-4335GS is an “intermediate level” trumpet, but they don’t seem to be played professionally. The Yamaha website says “YTR-4335G - Many professional features make this an ideal trumpet for the advancing student.”

iii. Many professional musicians prefer the Bach Stradivarius Bb Trumpet 180 series but I think they are unnecessarily expensive. However the website is worth a look. I have no other comments on the Bach as I have only played a similar Bach 180 Low Resistance model owned by a mate – and then, only once.

My niece also plays with my band and used my old student trumpet, a Boosey and Hawkes Regent Mk II – made in 1955. It is no longer in production – but I have had it valued (for replacement) at $5071.00. This is a good solid student trumpet, but our playing has taken us both past this instrument because the valves are not fast enough and keep sticking. We now both play Getzens. (And I haven't influenced her one bit.) I also have a “pocket trumpet” (a compact trumpet that I use for practice when I’m travelling) manufactured by Weril in Brazil – it’s not bad but I bought it to fit in a suitcase not to play in the band – it is a good solid little unit and cost me AUD$610.00 in Melbourne.

References: http://www.getzen.com/trumpet/
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/
http://www.bachbrass.com/content/s_trumpets/

OK, so where do we stand: -

i. Getzen at about AUD$1290 total cost, in my hands, fully imported from Washington Music Center (US spelling) – I rang and negotiated over the phone (safer than eBay). Price includes import duty, Customs inspection fee, freight, and yes GST on all of the above. Contact Roger Kuiper,
c/o Washington Music Center, 11151 Veirs Mill Road, Wheaton, MD 20902-2503, tel: (301) 946-8808

(The local music shop has quoted AUD$1895-$2250 for this instrument).

• Yamaha 4335GS at about AUD$1000.00 – AUD$1200.00 plus

Don't bother buying a new Yamaha from the US. Purchasing a Yamaha from the States seems to be less financially advantageous than the Getzen, probably because Yamaha instruments are sourced in Japan. (This probably is not a valid comment in the States).

• Bach Stradivarius 180 Series at about AUD$2300.00

Always have a blow before you decide on any instrument, and most of the band members will be happy (from my experience) to let the you try each type. You will need to use you own mouthpiece – nobody shares them. I always have a spare, clean, trumpet mouthpiece with me regardless. A mouthpiece is normally included when you purchase a new instrument, but if you have a size/brand preference, organisations like Washington Music Center will substitute the standard one for your choice. If in doubt, the standard Bach 7C is a good reliable starting point (Benge 7C, UMC 7C are essentially the same as the Bach). Things (instruments) to note: -

i. avoid ANYTHING from SE Asia except Japan – (Yamaha is from
Japan and they make fine instruments).
ii. Avoid any trumpet named after something that “swims” or “flies” – examples would be “Lark” or “Neptune” etc,
iii. Do not buy Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, Taiwanese instruments,
iv. Be suspect of anything where the place of manufacture cannot be absolutely positively identified even though they often strongly suggest an origin in the USA.
v. Be aware that many SE Asian instruments use names very similar to well known, respected, high quality brands – examples:
a. Holton,
b. Bessen (Besson is the good one but out of business),
c. Selman (Selmer is the proper one, and expensive),
d. Maestro – Indian (Meastro is the good European brand)

Note the spelling variations – you have to be really really careful.

One of the clues with respect to cheap poor quality instruments is the lack of a serial number – good equipment is always serialised you will find the serial number on the right hand side of the valve casing or somewhere close by.

I hope this helps – above all, ask questions, try the instrument, ask more questions, use the same mouthpiece for every test, play the same piece of music – I use “Danny Boy” but it doesn’t matter as long as you explore the player’s range. Try and take a musician you know to assess each of the sounds. Listen to your tutor, listen to your child – I know that sounds progressive but they quickly get to know how an instrument “feels” and that is vital. My Boosey and Hawkes, Getzen, and Weril instruments all feel totally different to each other and I have had to completely modify the way I hold the Getzen for things to work for me. This has meant many MONTHS of sore hands until the muscles and tendons stretched to suit, but it has been worth it – I loved the Getzen straight off but I'd learnt on another instrument with a different shape – kids hands are more flexible than mine and this is unlikely to be a problem for them. If still in doubt – hire one till your child is in High School, I reached an agreement with both my boys – if you play until the end of High School, I'll buy you and instrument – a total cost of about $9,000 – so be prepared.
I also hired one for them to leave at school and kept the good one at home – then they only had to carry their mouthpiece – this worked well for both boys and the longevity of the instruments.

__________________
.
Ted

Ursa

A Getzen Capri is another option worth considering. They can be found for around $400 used and should serve him very well for the rest of middle and high school.

__________________
Ursa's collection of fine brasswinds...
Besson BE709 Trumpet
Conn 20B Trumpet - small bore
E. K. Blessing XL-CR Short Cornet
Frank Holton Super Collegiate Trumpet, Copper/Nickel bell
Frank Holton Super Collegiate Cornet, Rose Brass/Nickel bell
Frank Holton Collegiate Cornet
Yamaha YEP-321S Euphonium
Frank Holton 6/4 EEb Tuba

dsgmi

After several weeks of reading posts here, checking out the local music stores and watching ebay, we found a used trumpet locally that we were able to go and play before committing. We ended up buying a Yamaha 2320 from a family/teeneager that is no longer playing. My DH says it plays well, is in pretty good condition: valves good, slides are all free, just a few scratches and 2 tiny dings, laquer good, nice case, cleaning brushes, valve oil, slide grease, 7C mouthpiece and a mute.

Thank you all for all of your help! I'll have my son check out the forums here...I'm sure he could learn a lot! :)

Denise