screamingmorris

1977 HoltonTrumpet "MF Horn" ST304 - eBay (item 150205816704 end time Jan-20-08 22:05:48 PST)

I have just won the 1977 Holton ST304 above and would appreciate any info that anyone could provide such as
how it sounds,
how it plays / feels in lower and upper registers,
its specifications such as bore size and bell size,
type and quality of materials used in making it,
years it was made,
how commonly they are found,
how it compares to other MF Horn models and other trumpet makes,
how does it compare to the Bud Brisbois ST200,
does it play better with any specific valve oil,
does it play better with certain types of mouthpieces,
both pros and cons of all types for the ST304.

What I know so far is:

A poster named “brtech” who used to work for Holton / Leblanc said that Leblanc used the same Martin valve block in the ST304 that it used in the Leblanc Martin and that it might have some kind of “dual bore” (whatever that means). I wonder what the reputation is for that valve block.
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=651073&sid=887a5c15f976eed92c6b934 cbef79e66

Some unofficial sources claim that the ST304 has a .468 bore and a 5 inch bell.
http://www.brassreview.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/971/sort/8/cat/37/page/1

Some owners of the sister model ST302 claim that the ST302 valves are not so great, so I wonder what to expect from the valves on the ST304.
http://www.brassreview.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/254/sort/8/cat/37/page/1

The last photo of my 1977 Holton ST304 in the eBay ad at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150205816704&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005
shows that the 3rd slide stop needs to be soldered back on.
Will that solder job damage the silver finish?

Finally, I have never seen any other Holton MF Horn model sell for as little as the $307 that I paid for the Holton ST304.
I have seen the intermediate ST550 sell for more than that on eBay:
Holton Silver ST550S Maynard FergusonTrumpet ST550 S - eBay (item 310008834501 end time Dec-23-07 21:06:54 PST)
Did I get the ST304 for such a low price because there is some significant defect shown in the photos that I fail to see,
or is the ST304 model just not as much in demand because it is an obscure model or because it has a slightly smaller bore size,
or is the ST304 considered less “professional” a horn than the ST302 and others?

oldlou

You claim that you have 'won' the Holton trumpet. the next step is to pay for it, then, wait for it to arrive and, at that point, you can personally evaluate it. You ask for opinions. We can only give you what we have experienced, not what you will deduce from an actual hands on experience with 'your' new to you horn. In almost your entire posting on this subject you have simply wasted your time and ours, asking us for information that is either readily available in the horns specs, or for 'our' opinion, which is simply useless, unless you just happen to have exactly the same tastes, training, opinions, and type of usagre as the person offereing his/her opinion.


'If' you pay for this horn, let us know what 'your' opinion of it might be. We might not be interested, but, at least you will feel better.


OLDLOU>>

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Couturier trumpet
York Master Model trumpet
York Elite trumpet
York Airflow cornet
King super 20 Master Model cornet
King Liberty trumpet
Reynolds Professional cornet
Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet
Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell
Olds Special cornet Los Angeles
B&H Sovereign cornet
G.R.Band Instr. cornet
Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Many others no room to list

screamingmorris

Your antagonistic accusations are silly.
There was nothing wrong with my post.
I *don't* want a flame war, so I'll just ignore any further posts from you.

Pete

The ST304 has a .465 bore which would be the ST200 specs. I owned one when they first came out. I thought it played tighter than it should back then comparing it to my LA Benge 3X-Plus. .464 bore.So I would expect the horn to feel more like an ML bore rather than a L bore. My guess is the leadpipe is on the tight side for this horn. There aren't too many people who have one. It may be a good purchase. I hope this helps.

Pete

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Pete Grimaldi

tomcat

Give the guy a break. Is it not possible that somebody here on the forums might own one and would be more than happy to give out information about it? If it is such a waste of your time we'll then I guess you didn't have to reply to the post did you? Now, in reply to the original post, sorry bud I don't own one or I would love to help you out. And you didn't waste my time either. Hope you like it! Looks like a good horn.

screamingmorris

For the past year I have been playing a 1970 Conn 22B Victor which is tighter than the Conn 22B's of the 40's and early 50's that I pefer.

But the 1940's 22B's sell for so much today and often require quite of bit of repair both mechanically and cosmetically.

And I don't like the tight sound of my 1970 22B Vctor even though it was the last year they made them in Elkhart according to Conn Loyalist.
Of course, I must keep in mind that the previous owner of the 1970 22B was a Junior High School which let young students use / abuse it, a fact that was not given to me prior to my buying it off of eBay,

Since I do have some breathing limitations due to illness and I'm used to the 1970 Conn 22B Victor, I will probably be grateful that the ST304 is not as open as the ST302 but will be more open than the 1970 Conn 22B Victor.

The ST302 that I tried in 1973 was the best trumpet that I ever tried in my life, so I hope that the ST304 has more similarities than differences to the ST302.

As a 50 year old come-back amateur, it never occurred to me that leadpipe size can change the feel of 2 trumpets that have identical bore sizes at the 2nd valve.
I guess that means that, using mouthpiece lingo, the "leadpipe" is the "throat" of the trumpet while the "bore" is the "backbore" of the trumpet?
Thanks for the info!

I am trying to decide if I should order a Curry 8.5 Star to put on the ST304.
I have tried 3 other Curry mouthpieces and they were all too shallow. I am an upstream player whose lower lips protrudes into the cup quite a bit.
I'm used to a 1970's Bach 7E which has the almost perfect cup diameter and cup depth and rim contour and "undercut" for me, but I want a much tighter throat and backbore.

Lezwoymn

Lou, I think you're old and mean. As someone else said, give the guy a break.

veery715

I only have an ST550S as far as Holtons go. All I can say is that it's well built and a fairly easy blow for an ML bore (.459) Great valves. Holton did not produce much in the way of cheapo horns. They always had a pretty good rep when I was younger.

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Music = Love

Trumpets:
Lawler Bb / Olds Recording / Schilke B2
Selmer Rad 2 / Yamaha 8310Z
Holton MF ST 550S / Stage 1 California C
Easyplay mini-trumpet (????) / Chinese Special / Benetone
1934 Cleveland (HN White) 603 Silver Plate w/ Gold Bell

Kanstul ZKT 1525 Flugelhorn

Cornets:
Conn 36A / King Super 20 Master
Olds Ambassador / Conn 18A
King HN White 1904 Bb+A / Ohio Regent Soloist

Conn 16E Eb/F Mellophone

Piano, keyboards, vibes, congas, guitars, yada yada

Pete

screamingmorris,

The leadpipe isn't the only thing that affects the horn, but it is one of the variables. I would wait until you play the horn before you start checking mouthpieces out. You can always dial it in later with a Warburton, or Reeves mouthpiece, or have a Curry customized for you. The mouthpiece that you have may be a perfect fit. You never know.

Some people say bore size doesn't matter. It does in relationship to the other parts, leadpipe, bell, materials, etc. Also as I recall, Maynard used the ST304 for a while as his "jazz" horn for playing more intricate passages. Anyway, change only one variable at a time or it will drive you nuts. With a new horn, use a familiar mouthpiece for a while. Then determine which way you want to go with it. Good luck!

Pete

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Pete Grimaldi

ws trumpet

Morris, I have most of the MF St models, including an St305 and the Brisbois St200. The St304 differs from the St302 in bore size and leadpipe venturi. The 304 has the same leadpipe taper as the St200. The bell differs from the Brisbois model in that is is not as thin. Holton listed the bore in their spec as .465 for both the St200 and St304; in playing both trumpets, neither feel like a large bore trumpet. I have also owned an St200 Dave Stahl signature horn which was a .459 ML bore that felt absolutely huge compared to either of the previous horns. I have not found the 304 to be particularly mouthpiece sensitive. It is a great playing horn and I am sure you will enjoy it.