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Horns Discuss Horns made in China. in the Equipment forums; Hello. Just asking this question. Why does it matter where the trumpet was made? Shouldn't matter who and how they ...
  1. #1
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    Horns made in China.

    Hello.
    Just asking this question.
    Why does it matter where the trumpet was made?
    Shouldn't matter who and how they were made?
    What if a bach trumpet maker in the us went to china and made a horn of same quality as he would in the us?
    Is it fair to say the horn was made in China?
    And what if a poor trumpet maker came to the US and made a trumpet of poor quality, is it fair to call it made in US?
    Just wondering what your thoughts were.

  2. #2
    New Friend TrumpetJ's Avatar
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    Re: Horns made in China.

    I think he is asking about why some people are so hard on Chinese trumpets. If Bach moved to China, but continued to put out the same quality product, then they would still be given high marks by the trumpet playing community. It's the quality of the horn that the Chinese companies are currently putting out that is drawing so much heat. they are made so quick and cheap. they fall apart easily and most music stores won't bother touching them anymore because whatever they repair ends up breaking again. It's not so much where the horn is from as much as it is the quality of product. China has just unfortunately made themselves the epicenter of really low quality instruments as of late.

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    Re: Horns made in China.

    I made a very poor choice in buying an Indian made Flugal a year or so back. It came with a lead tuning pipe that did not fit, the valves spun around inside the casing....I could go on. I have since turned it into a table lamp. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it was rubbish because it was made in India, what I AM saying is that because I have had a bad experience with instruments made in that part of the world I will be very wary in the future.

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    Re: Horns made in China.

    I think one thing to consider is that tot he best of my knoldge their are no junk trumpet's made in the USA. By that I mean that last I checked all of them are solid student horns that have allt heir part's working properly. Far too often horns made in China or India can not say the same thing. On more then one occassion they have come tot he USA with valves that leaked or joints that leaked. On too many occassions they have had massive failure rate for things like the vlaves. Now if they had a dealer network as much as I hate dealer networks you would have some way to persue warranty issue's. Just the other day another Eastman Trumpet died at my son's school from valve problems it is a brand new trumpet as of the beginning of the school year. On the other hand most of the kids that are playing old antique USA made trumpets and Cornet's are doing just fine with no problems. My son's trumpet is from 1946 and has valves that are heavily worn and it stillplays fine! His ugly to look at Holton T602 which is looking preetier allthe time plays just fine and it at lest 20 year's old maybe older.

    Now do not get me wrong I have a Jupiter trumpet made in Taiwan that I would put up against anything Bach makes for fit and finish and durability but Jupiter is not the norm for a Chi-Com company. Some of these Chi-Com instruments are plain junk and some are just fine. The problem is that you never know the true name of the company that made them so you have no way to know if you are getting a good one or a piece of junk! I have been tempted a few times to get one just to check it out. Their is a company selling some Ebay marketed under the name Venus and they have stainless steel valves and offer a copper plated model that I would assume is yellow brass or ambronze under the copper plateing. Since the valves are the most often item to fail I wanted to try these because they have stainless steel valves. I can only imagine that with stainless steel valves that this would solve most of the problems with the chi-com horn's.

    Now I will note though that my son's Eastman did not slot as well or have as good intonation as the Holton T602 that replaced it. Bear in mind that the Eastman 301 was made to look like a Bach Strad in it's design and was new in all ways but sounded dead compared to the old Holton student model. that Holton T602 sounds dead compared to my TU-58 Medalist student trumpet and so on.......

    I know their companies in China that can make a trumpet that sounds good. The Eastman 420 and 530 I think they are numbered have gotten rave reviews for their sound being almost as good as models costing much much more. The problem is we do not know the name of the company that makes those "Eastman Models" like wise we know Barrintons are good and are made in either China or Taiwan but again we do not know the company tht makes them for Barrington. If we had some way to know what companies made what comeing out of China and had a way to get waranty part's and services that would solve a lot of issue's. So because the Chineese do not seem to be ready to police their own industries many just try to avoid them. Plus I doubt many of the trumpets comeing out of China are up to Bach Strad levels of sound and that is what most people on this sight want. Most of us either want a sound like the days of the Golden Days of Jazz and Big Band in America or we want something that sounds like a Bach Strad....I am guessing that at best most of them that are being currently marketed inthe USA are meant as student models. It is possable though for an Asian company to get a foot hold though look at Yamaha!

    I would say though that over all you are correct no one on this site will ever look at a Horn from China like they do one from Chicago or California!
    Last edited by lovevixen555; 02-04-2009 at 02:03 AM.

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    Pianissimo User siarr's Avatar
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    Re: Horns made in China.

    Not all horns made in China are mediocre. I've owned and/or tried a couple Eastman (Andreas Eastman, Eastman Winds) trumpets, and they were surprisingly good. The ETR520 (Bb) is a really nice instrument, maybe not quite comparable to the Yamaha or Bach high end horns, but certainly a wonderful horn for half the price of a Strad. The D/Eb I tried was also very smooth and easy to play, but the high open G was just too sharp to tolerate - if they can fix it, it would be a super horn. They're worth trying!

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    Yamaha 631 Flugel

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    Piano User Claude Gnocchi's Avatar
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    Re: Horns made in China.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpetJ View Post
    I think he is asking about why some people are so hard on Chinese trumpets. If Bach moved to China, but continued to put out the same quality product, then they would still be given high marks by the trumpet playing community. It's the quality of the horn that the Chinese companies are currently putting out that is drawing so much heat. they are made so quick and cheap. they fall apart easily and most music stores won't bother touching them anymore because whatever they repair ends up breaking again. It's not so much where the horn is from as much as it is the quality of product. China has just unfortunately made themselves the epicenter of really low quality instruments as of late.
    EXACTLY! As an owner of about 5 Chinese-made horns (Eastman, Berkely, Stork, etc.) I have personal experience w/this - here is what I have found: The Andreas Eastman so far is the best quality-made Chinese horn. The others have essentially fallen apart before my eyes...I was playing a beautiful looking and sounding Berkely copy of a classic Bach, it sounded great but the valves would stick; finger buttons would pop out and a first valve slide I tried to solder...just came apart.....SO, in sum, these horns look nice, and sound great, but the materials appear to be terrible! The Eastman is more expensive and has actually held up quite well, but it is still not the quality of American & European horns........

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    Re: Horns made in China.

    We have two horns from China, one from Taiwan, and they're all adequate. Not great, and the worst of them is closer to what we used to call, with a shudder, "just barely good". They represent a small fraction of the total collection, and I don't see that changing. But if you're looking for something that will see relatively little use, priced appropriately, such as a pocket trumpet or bass trumpet, there's not much choice any more. My biggest complaint about those as well as the junk coming from India and Pakistan, is that hardly any of them are marked for country of origin - as I'll bet thousands of eBay buyers of unplayable junkers can attest.
    Vintage Olds and Reynolds and Selmers, yes sir, yes sir, two gazoos full.

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    Pianissimo User Labidochromis's Avatar
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    Re: Horns made in China.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodMusic@PA View Post
    Hello.
    Just asking this question.
    Why does it matter where the trumpet was made?
    Shouldn't matter who and how they were made?
    What if a bach trumpet maker in the us went to china and made a horn of same quality as he would in the us?
    Is it fair to say the horn was made in China?
    And what if a poor trumpet maker came to the US and made a trumpet of poor quality, is it fair to call it made in US?
    Just wondering what your thoughts were.

    I am an advocate of purchasing locally made products wherever possible by buying an American made horn made by an American Keeping jobs local and supporting a North American economy. I will shop overseas if they provide a product I cannot get here I don’t care if an American made horn costs more.

    We are putting people out of work in the US and Canada just because we want things cheaper. Every morning people are getting laid off and facing career changes because our consumer market wants big salaries and are not willing to pay for local products.

    Keep your neighbours employed and buy something made in America.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by Labidochromis; 02-03-2009 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Minor error in text.

  9. #9
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    Re: Horns made in China.

    I agree!

    Cheap is not always better.

    Items made in the USA may not be the cheapest, but the quality of craftsmanship is higher than imports from China and India.

    Buying "local" for me means purchasing "USA Made" goods first which are not always easy to find. It seems that almost every product we use in the USA (except for a few) has "Made in China" marked on it.

    Best wishes,

    Lloyd

  10. #10
    Piano User oldlips48's Avatar
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    Re: Horns made in China.

    IMHO it's easier to make a "cheap" horn in China because the labor costs are so much less. You couldn't make a horn in the US and sell it for $99 because there's no way to cover the more expensive US labor costs. Now for a high end horn (or car or anything for that matter) the increased margin would allow you to pay more for higher quality labor and make higher quality product.

    A high end product from China SHOULD have high quality as they can cover the increased manufacturing / quality assurance costs. But the high growth rate China has been experiencing (at least until recently) depletes the labor pool and even high end manufacturers can't get high quality labor.

    Again, IMHO
    Steve
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