trumpetnick

This thread was inspired by Rowuk's post on the Getzen 3 valve thread and some other comments on the relation between leadpipes, bores, bell sizes and how dark the sound gets by changing those specifics.

In theory, as far I understand, if you want a dark sound, you wil need a thiny leadpipe and huge bell. This seems to work on flugels. However, on trumpets for some reason, when someone say dark sound, most of us think of large leadpipes, large bore and slow flared bells. We can probably additionaly darken the sounds by experimenting with bigger bells, different materials like red brass, copper and augmenting the weight of the horn...Any comments?

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Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

rowuk

I personally believe there is NO correlation whatsoever. The instrument designer can make a dark sounding horn with a small, large or medium bore out of yellow, gold or red brass and all of that heavy or light. Whether or not they can get dark AND projection AND size of sound all at the same time with any of those combination is a point of contention. One thing is for sure, just about every piece of marketing material like websites or broschures does little to profess the truth and quite a bit to perpetuate myths.

The moral of the story is not to buy on specs. Play the damn thing and then make your decision.

Just for comparison, my small bore rotary Bb from 1938 AND my Bach 229H AND my Monette Prana3 all are considered to have a "dark" sound when I play in the orchestra. The rotary is small bore and yellow brass, the Bach has a gold brass bell and a large bore and the Monette is a heavy horn with a huge bell - I have no idea about the material or bore size.

If you are not happy with the sound of your horn, you have the wrong horn or have trouble with your own concept. That is where the focus has to be!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

trumpetnick

The post I was refering to was VB's not Rowuk's. Sorry Robin!

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Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

rowuk

No problem Nick, I have the 4-Valved Getzen flugel too. The Monette deep Vee mouthpiece keeps the brightness down. You can still chase trombone players with it!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

cornetguy

As above with what Robin said about concept of sound. I taught a brass methods class a couple years ago and told them that Professor Harold Hill was on the right track with the think method in some ways. Think the sound that you want and the trumpet will either help you get it or get in the way, if the latter then you need to look in a different direction.

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Per aspera ad astra

trumpetnick

I am quite happy with my spada and her sound. The reason I asked the question is more because what I heard seems to contradict my experience with horns...

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Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

Dale Proctor

I think the bell shape (rate of flair) and size do really affect the timbre of a trumpet. Everything else is a matter of design tradeoffs and balance between various components. While it's true that the player is largely responsible for the sound coming out of the bell, you can't deny that different trumpets have different tendencies. The trick is to match the right horn (or mouthpiece) and sound concept to whatever music you're playing at the time.

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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

Brett Getzen

This is a common misconception in the trumpet world. Some think that you can take a bright horn and darken it simply by adding a bigger bell or swapping a yellow bell with a gold brass bell. This just doesn't work.

A trumpet is the sum of all of its parts. Take the Genesis for example. It's a pretty dark sounding trumpet. It has a large throat, yellow brass bell. Now look at the 3001MV Mike Vax model. It's a nice, bright lead horn with the exact same throat as the Genesis and the bell is gold brass. Shouldn't it me darker?

There is no one thing that makes a horn sound the way it does. From mouthpiece to bell flare, it all works together.

Brett Getzen

bigpapajosh

darkness doesnt come only from a horn, and i can very comfortably state that the player has more to the do with sound than the horn.